Want booming powered subwoofer, serious bass! Opinions?

EvilHorace · Post by **EvilHorace** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:02 am

I want to add a powered subwoofer that'll shake the room with bass whilst watching DVDs. I don't want, need a complete surround sound system, just a powered sub with ALOT of bass.

Crutchfield sells alot of great looking powered subs from their online catelog and I want one but I'm unsure of just how much power is needed for an impressive effect. I don't want a slight, barely noticeable effect, I want WOW!!! (as the room shakes knocking wifeys things off the walls

)

Is 250 watts enough or should I opt for MORE POWER, like 500 or 1000 watts? The later 2 get pretty costly and I'm sure they'd do the job but does anyone here have a 250 watt powered sub and think that it's plenty? I don't want to do it twice, like buy the 250 watt and be sorry afterwords even if I can return it (return shipping probably won't be cheap either).

rogue · Post by **rogue** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:27 pm

250-500 watts will be fine for your purpose. The main difference between a low and high watt sub is the build quality and the cleanness of the bass response. You see, subs are meant to provide the low frequency sounds, which add much depth to movies. I used to have an old JBL sub, which worked fairly well, but it could not do medium range bass. It would only do very low frequencies, and so it was rather a pain to hear. Contrary to popular belief, subs in conjunction with home theater are meant to provide low frequencies *and not* obnoxious bass. Of course your average person will think the more the bass the better, seeing as outfitting cars with as many subs as possible is all the rage these days. Your average sub will have 2 controls : Volume & Bass-Roll off. Volume is self explanatory, and so if you want the big boom you can turn it all the way up. Roll off determines the frequency the sub begins to work at, usually from 150hz-30hz. Which sub are you looking into purchasing? If you want the biggest bass, look for a sub with the lowest frequency crossover (roll-off). Some subs can go to as low as 15hz, which the human ear can't even hear (but you can definitely feel it). Hope this helped you a bit... I know it took me a while to fully understand subs and find the right one.

Viperoni · Post by **Viperoni** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:23 pm

My new DIY sub with a 15inch Dayton DVC pulls off 115db @ 20hz and 121db @ 40hz........from my listening position in my ~2800cf room.

Now that my friend, is a SH!TLOAD of bass

Total cost, driver, 250watt plate amplifier (tested to 220watt RMS @ 4ohms, peaks around 275watts), wood and other materials was around $300.
NOTHING out there for the money can compare. NOTHING.

EvilHorace · Post by **EvilHorace** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:38 pm

That thing's huge. I'll post a crutchfield comparison list later but some with similar specs cost around that and look finished too. See, it's gotta reside in our family room, decorated by my wife who won't be happy to see ANY subwoofer box so it's gotta look somewhat decent and be small enough to put behind a chair or somewhere not too visable or she'll have a fit. As it is, she's not happy when I leave my laptop out in plain view. I'm lucky to be allowed to sit in there

.

Rogue, thanks but I do understand subs as I've used them for many years in my cars and PCs too. I'll add more details later though.

Viperoni · Post by **Viperoni** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:46 pm

I only built it that big for a low Q design (tight, deep, accuate bass)
It's really incredible how tight and punchy it is.....especially in movies (bullet shots hit you hard, pictures FLUTTER on the walls

)
That box is roughly 5cf gross.....but the driver can go in as small as a 2cf stuffed box.

How much do you have to spend?

BTW: I modded the amp's XO section to provide a 45hz @ 24db/octave XO.
the crossover knob still affects the roll off point somewhat; at the lowest setting, all you get is pure HT bass. I usually leave it turned up about 40% for music though.

I measured it 2 feet away from the cone and I was pushing 124db

WeekendWarrior · Post by **WeekendWarrior** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:04 am

Viperoni what is DIY ? do it yourself?
IF so did you use a car sub and what kind of amp?
how hard is it to make a sub for home stereo?
thanks
WW

Originally posted by Viperoni
My new DIY sub with a 15inch Dayton DVC pulls off 115db @ 20hz and 121db @ 40hz........from my listening position in my ~2800cf room.

Now that my friend, is a SH!TLOAD of bass

Total cost, driver, 250watt plate amplifier (tested to 220watt RMS @ 4ohms, peaks around 275watts), wood and other materials was around $300.
NOTHING out there for the money can compare. NOTHING.

Viperoni · Post by **Viperoni** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 7:32 am

Yup, Do It Yourself.
Hence my title (under my nickname

)

Car subs generally suck for home use because they don't go low enough for the super low home theatre bass that you need to reproduce.......and they usually don't have enough excursion (magnet isn't strong enough to push the cone out far)

15inch Dayton DVC sub driver
Notice the 32mm of linear excursion, 600watts RMS power handling and the 5 year warranty

250watt plate amplifier
I modded it, but you don't have to (though I do recommend it for flatter, better overall sound).

I wouldn't say it's too hard, but if you build it as big as mine, then it gets heavy (~80lbs)

I'll get back to you with more info later

poop · Post by **poop** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 8:41 am

If you want to DIY, you might want to try a Sonotube design. You just use a concrete forms tube, cap the ends, and install the sub.

From the reading I have done, it seems like the simplest design.

rogue · Post by **rogue** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:47 pm

I have a REL Q150E myself. Simply the cleanest, most accurate, highest quality bass I have ever heard. Expensive, but well worth it. http://www.sumikoaudio.com/q150e.htm
Horace, I would recommend going into local HT shops to look for a sub as opposed to ordering it from a catalog. It might be a tad more expensive, but you actually get to hear the sub, and of course the return policy is a lot better.

Viperoni · Post by **Viperoni** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 4:52 pm

poop's right, sonotubes are very sturdy; but you have to make the end caps pretty thick.
I'd recommend dual layered 3/4inch MDF (glued together obviously).

rogue, honestly, I'd go for something a bit beefier for home theatre. most 10inchers just can't put out the kind of excursion (and, in essence, displacement) that home theatre demands of the sub.
A really nice driver would be the new Dayton Titanic MK2 12incher; with 17mm of Xmax (so 34mm total), you can't bottom it out with it's max power rating of 495watts in a sealed box. Now that's sweet.
Pair it up with the 250watt plate amp, and you're on cloud nine

rogue · Post by **rogue** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:43 pm

Quite frankly 10" is enough for my needs. The sub has an important, but not integral place in the HT. My 10" pumps out more than enough to satisfy my thirst during action movies, while my left/center/right speakers play a much more important role (overall) in almost all movies.

Viperoni · Post by **Viperoni** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 5:50 pm

I believe you, but Evil said he wanted a pumping sub.....

How big is your home theatre room Evil?

Generally the most important speaker for HT is the center...the mains really dont do as much.
But we're assuming that the rest of his system is up to par

Evil, if you want an awesome sub in a kit form, you can't beat the Dayton 15inch DVC sub kit (cabinet, amp, driver) for $438 for the money. It'll take Velodyne's to school, in SPL and SQ.

If you have more cash, check out the Stryke Audio Power 15.2 sub

All testing was done in TN's large 7500ft room.

Results of 110.5dB at 16Hz and 110.1dB at 20Hz in the small room appear to be the highest recorded by TN Communications to date for any single subwoofer system. At 32Hz and 40Hz, levels of clean output over 120dB can be reached.

and finally,

Comparisions
For those who would like a comparison between other available home theater subwoofers we are providing the following results from TN's testing on the Velodyne® F1800 from the September 1997 issue of Stereo Review. The article was entitled "How Big Is Big Enough." To the best of our knowledge, the F1800 has the highest average SPL and highest 16Hz and 20Hz output of any production subwoofer measured by TN communications. This comparison should give a good idea as to the extreme levels of output achieved by the Power15.

Pic of the unit

Schwartz · Post by **Schwartz** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:03 pm

Hey Viperoni, you're all about DIY but when are you going to make it look good yourself?

I don't doubt they sound good but have you improved the looks yet? In all your pictures the speakers look like they are in cardboard boxes. How were you planning on finishing them off? I'd consider the DIY route in the future but they have to look and sound good in the end.

Viperoni · Post by **Viperoni** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:19 pm

Schwartz,

Basically any kinda glue needs 15c/60f+ to bond, so I have to wait until it gets warmer outside

I already have the mahagony veener bought, so in a few months when it warms up, im gonna put the veneer on the sub, center channel, rebuild the mains (for smaller) and veneer those as well, and build a few more pairs of speakers. Perhaps a tiny pair of surrounds....maybe

I'll probably do a deeper stain followed with 2-3 coats of clear sealer, that'll keep it nice and glossy

I would love to match my very deep rosewood tables, but I dont think I wanna go quite that dark.

Of course you can buy prefinished boxes, parts express only has them with kits (the BR-1 monitor, 6.5inch woofer and silk tweet, or their DIY subs), but madisound has a whole series of prefinished boxes. Madisoudn Woodstyle boxes

I know what you mean though, the plain MDF boxes are getting a bit unsightly to look at.
I can't wait to get them finished

Viperoni · Post by **Viperoni** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:21 pm

Oh, and I forgot to mention before applying veneer, I have to power sand all of the joints perfectly smooth, and that just can't be done inside the house

Then after sanding, a very thin applicationg of bondo all over the box, and another super smooth sanding, then veneer.
Obviously it's a lot of work, which is why the prefab enclosures are such a nice option