for a 400mhz differance this is pathetic!

[GraingerGuy]

Wow.........a non-bias intel supporter....I'm impressed.

the P4 processor gives you the advanced technology to get the most out of today's and tomorrow's Internet.

I still don't see all that many sites rushing to use even the P3's version of making the internet faster. And from what I remember it did not make all that much difference anyways. I could be wrong though......

And if game makers supported 3dnow! as much as the do SSE/SSE2, the T-birds would kick some serious @$$. I remember quakeII on a K6-2 300 would be on par with a PII 300. It's just to bad that companies don't really support it.

[nexus_7]

LikeLinus...I swear the ONLY time I Ever see you talk is when you have something to say Deffending Intel. Kind of like Red. always defending hte loosing team. I didnt Bash intel I Linked to an artical. YOU bashed intel and amd. you can jabber jaw all U want but all it boiles down to is that Intels P4 having an Extra 400 mhz gets schooled by a cpu having Less cpu power and Less ram bandwith. that is jsut a Poor design my friend.

Greg

[tunis5000]

Well there's no need to get into an AMD/Intel flame war over here, they both have their pros and cons. Since I'm primarily a gamer, that's what I'm most interested in (from Anandtech):

[align=center]<img src="http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu ... age024.gif">

"Quake III Arena has long been a favorite of the Pentium 4, and the latest release does nothing to change that. The 1.7GHz P4 offers close to a 20% advantage over the Athlon at 1.33GHz, but don’t let Quake III Arena be the only judge of performance for you.

<img src="http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu ... age026.gif">

The picture changes dramatically in UnrealTournament, where the 1.7GHz Pentium 4 takes a 7% backseat to the Athlon. This 7% penalty isn’t obviously as great as the gap we saw under Quake III Arena, but it is to show you that there is no clear performance winner in all categories yet.

<img src="http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu ... age028.gif">

Under Serious Sam, a relatively new (and fun) game, the Pentium 4 at 1.7GHz and the Athlon at 1.33GHz are separated by no more than 2 fps. As you can see, this benchmark is scaling wonderfully with clock speed although slightly more so for the Pentium 4 since the 1.33GHz Athlon only holds a 16% increase in performance over the 1.0GHz Athlon.

<img src="http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu ... age030.gif">

In our final gaming test we see that the Pentium 4 once again takes the lead under Mercedes Benz Truck Racing. In fact, all of the Pentium 4 processors take the lead here indicating that an architectural advantage is keeping the line ahead of the competition here. Potential candidates for the explanation include cache/memory bandwidth or the Pentium 4’s high-bandwidth FSB.[/align]

In terms of gaming performance, the current standings are producing mixed results. In some situations (Quake III Arena, MBTR) the Pentium 4 is dominating, while in others it is tying (Serious Sam) or lagging behind the Athlon (UnrealTournament). We will have to wait until more games are available that we can test in order to make a solid conclusion for the gamer, however you really can’t go wrong with either setup as far as things stand today."

I'm gonna throw in a 3dmark 2001 benchmark from x-bit as well:

[align=center]<img src="http://www.xbitlabs.com/cpu/pentium4-1700/3dmark.gif">

"The first benchmark, which could be nominally called a gaming test (3DMark 2001 is based on checking the performance in four game scenes), brings a rough change. Pentium 4 1.7GHz, and Athlon 1.33GHz go more or less evenly, with Pentium 4 a bit ahead. Why so? Firstly, 3DMark 2001 is one of the first applications optimized for SSE2, which is implemented in Pentium 4 CPU. And secondly, this test requires high processor bus bandwidth."[/align]

Either way you look at it, they are both excellent processors and you can't really go wrong with either one, the results are usually so close you wouldn't notice the difference anyway. Personally I've decided to get a P4 1.5 or 1.7 come June (depends on price) and a GF3, I'm looking towards the future instead of staying in the past, in this hobby you just have to...

Peace!

[RubberDuckie]

The 1.7GHz P4 offers close to a 20% advantage over the Athlon at 1.33GHz

Not that good to me...
A Processor clocked 30% faster only offers 20% of an increase. Hmmmmmmmmm.

it boiles down to is that Intels P4 having an Extra 400 mhz gets schooled by a cpu having Less cpu power and Less ram bandwith. that is jsut a Poor design my friend.

Kinda what I mean

[Edited by RubberDuckie on 04-24-2001 at 05:04 PM]

[LikeLinus]

nexus_7, first thing, none of my original comments were towards you. I still have no idea why you took what i said so <i>personally</i>? There were other people talking and I just threw my 2 cents in/ You've apparently got some other issues that need to be tended to. You realize that other people might have different thoughts and feelings about things than you? Just because you hate something doesn’t mean the rest of the world does. Plus the fact that you have to belittle people and cuss them when they don’t think and act like you, further compounds the apparent problems. You've done this (and been ban) on several different boards/occations. Instead of trying to "school" people, why don't you grow up.

As far as it being 400mhz, that is all you can say. I pointed out several advances in the new P4 architecture. You stated the only reason it had longer pipelines was to up mhz, which is false. Instead of getting mad and just cussing (when proven wrong, you seen to do this time and time again), why don't you actually listen and learn. I'm still waiting for the "schooling" and all of this CPU architecture knowledge you have? I forgot that you used to work at AMD and know all about cpu's. LOL

Try to lighten up my friends...it's just a cpu.

[nexus_7]

no actually U came in spouting on about how a p4 is superior to a tbird. when in fact you "horse" power when Clocked at the Same speed as a tbird or P3 for that matter is far INFERIOR. Great new design. Otherpeoples statments were opinions Yours was to prove your point which U didnt do a very good job of cause your model was flawed.

here is a better one for U. take a p3 at 1gig oc it to 1330 and compare that with a p4 at 1330. I think You can even agree that the proformance of equally clocked INTEL chips has the p4 being peaten by its older "inferior" sibling.

and you were Also talking about Heat...well the p4 generates as much or more then a tbird.

The Whole point of my Origional post was to say exactly what I did. who in there Right mind would but a p4 with a 400mhz Bonus on an older chip when it cant win Every benchmark! with all that speed there is NO reason it should not be Leading EVERY benchmark by a substantial margin. The reasons it isnt is because One: the pipeline is to long, 2: rdram is way 2 damn slow, 3: it is a first generation chipset(I assume), 4: they were scared to death of a tbird and needed to keep the MHZ race up because even at identical speeds the tbird was and IS faster then a p4, 5: they were again scared of the Tbird taking its glory so they Rushed there product to the market when it was not ready, 6: let me say this again RDram BRU HAHAHA, 7: prople complained about the new and cpu's requiring new mboard and PS...well the p4 Requires new Mboard, RAM, PS, and heatsink...and maby a new case not sure about that and 8: it uses to much silicone to make and cost them to much....and even with the huge pipeline there are lots of bad wafers(all things they were trying to eliminate with the long pipeline). oh yea heat. hehe

I dotn have issues as you decided to post U do. I made a nice post people came in with there opinions, you cam in trying to change peoples mind....it WASNT welcome...and becides that I see you do the Same thing just about EVERY time some one mentions a p4 VS amd or p3 vs amd. DUDE get over it, it is done we have seen everything U have to say on the subject a FEW times now I think it is U who needs to grow up and move on.

Greg

[Lethal_[X]]

Well, you guys don't seem to understand one thing, if you take a game that implements SSE2 to a real extent (not just SSE2 supported(TM)) than you will see the P4 running circles around the Athlon.

And when did 3DNow get coded for? Oh, for about every game that came out after Quake2. 3DNow is not a new concept, it came with the K6-2. Even if the box doesn't say 3DNow enhanced, it still is enhanced for it. The Q3 engine was heavily enhanced for 3DNow. If you look at a game that was coded without 3DNow the Athlon does a shit job, that is why any benchmarks for a new processor are going to be so low.

-Alex

[nexus_7]

i dotn know if q3 has 3dnow or not but that game has always been a bandwith hog. that more then anything. one thing you missed though is more stuff is enhanced for the intel line of cpu's because One reason. then have a program that you run. it is as easy os that you write your program and then run it threw this intel subsystem program and it enhances the program on the spot. 3dnow has no such thing.

Greg

[LikeLinus]

Nexus you once again have proven yourself to have the intelligence of a child.

"no actually U came in spouting on about how a p4 is superior to a tbird"

When you can actually point out in my original post where i said the WORD TBIRD...LET ALONE that the p4 is better, then i will say you win and will never bother you again how about that?? Lets see how you try to twist my words this time. My original post said AMD, ONE TIME!! And that was to state that i want SMP AMD..LOL. You are so funny.

Fighting with you is pointless...its like talking to a rock. Try reading stuff. I NEVER said i was trying to change peoples minds. Do you actually believe everything you type? I was just making a statement that the REASON behind P4 being slower was cause of a totally new architecture?? Jesus dude, you really need to try and actually READ things before you jump off the deep end. Take a deep breath and re-read what i wrote originally.

Childish i say..childish.

[Splitfire]

Boy this thread sure started out innocently enough. I guess I'll throw in my two cents also.

Sorry to break it to U but your intel stock is in the craper and that is because they RUSHED there el CRAPO p4 to market cause there knees were a knocking because the Tbird ruled there p3.

You know everytime I think I have heard the most uninformed statement of all time, someone comes along and tops it.

[Kakarot]

Then why don't you enlighten us Splitfire? You say that statement isn't true or is off the mark.. but then don't back it up with facts? please. If you're gonna post something like that then back it up...

(you may or may not be right split, I just hate it when people come in like they know it all and don't back it up)

Likelinus.. you're arguement about the P4 being a new architecture(aww it, I can't spell that damn word) would be good if you hadn't copy and pasted straight from an Intel PR statement.

[LikeLinus]

oh Kakarot it's not like i was gunna sit there and type and remember all that bs I was just making a point that they've done alot more than just pipelines with the new chip. Regardless if it is somewhat slower, this wont matter in the near future.

[LikeLinus]

Spit is right about the stock though. To think that a company releasing a product actually makes their stock go down is nonsense. Intel's stock has dropped the same as AMD. AMD was up around 50 at one point (now at 27), so their stock went down cause they released the T-Bird (using the same theory that nexus used)? That's as silly a statement as i've seen. ALL tech stocks are down in the past 8 months. It's the trend of the market. Plus with the introduction of AMD to the mainstream desktop market, of course Intel stock is going to go down and AMD up. This is a very competitive market, and looks so for the next couple years to come.

I also don't see where Intel "Rushed" the p4 to market? It performaces good for what it is, it's able to achieve very high Mhz and still function same as any p3 or Tbird? So i don't see how it was "Rushed". It is naturally going to be slower because of the pipelines.

Last night on the screen savers, they had a p4 overclocked to 1958mhz!!!! Damn that is fast. p4's all seem to be like good overclockers. That is with stock cooling also! Imagine if you threw some good cooling on there, you'd probably hit 2gigs with ease.

[Splitfire]

First Linus,

To think that a company releasing a product actually makes their stock go down is nonsense. Intel's stock has dropped the same as AMD. AMD was up around 50 at one point (now at 27), so their stock went down cause they released the T-Bird (using the same theory that nexus used)?

Well it has happened in the past. Not every product is well recieved by the market and sometimes new products make stocks drop. And the second part about AMD dropping because they released the T-bird is not what nexus was saying at all. See below....

Going back to my statement earlier, off the top of my head the US economy is slowing down causing a decrease in domestic demand, corporate IT spending has been on the skid for almost a year now, and the exchange rate on the Euro means that European sales are almost pointless after you bring them back to US dollars. Is that enough backup?

Also, if you cary Nexus's statement through to its logical end, than that would mean that AMD's stock should be up since the T-bird is apparently so much netter. But as Linus pointed out, AMD has been hit hard by the slowdown for the same reasons.

[Edited by Splitfire on 04-25-2001 at 04:00 PM]

[LikeLinus]

spit, lol its called sarcasm...i know exactly what Nexus was saying. As uninformed as it might have been.