So let's talk about bad design decisions...

[GuardianAsher]

On the way to work yesterday morning, in 30-some-odd degree weather, that my heater wasn't working even after the car had ample time to warm up. Looked down at my temperature gauge, and had to quirk a brow when I saw the needle just barely above the 100 degree mark when this car usually runs at 195, rain or shine. Okay, no problem. Thermostat's stuck open, not letting the engine warm up, not letting the heater core warm up... drive to work anyway, then engine warming up just enough to keep my windshield defrosted. Good thing I brought my coat!

So I head into my local Autozone, pick up a thermostat for the 2005 Pontiac Sunfire that I (somewhat reluctantly) drive.. $25. Gee, aren't these things usually cheaper? Pretty sure the one for my 1984 Ford Bronco II is like... $10.

So I suppose this is where I made my first mistake. I assumed that, like pretty much every car I've ever had the pleasure or opportunity to work on, that the thermostat would be located roughly on the top/front/side of the motor, and be relatively easy to get to/replace. So I pop the hood and look around... start following the radiator hose down to where it hits the engine... oh... it's close to the bottom of the motor. Okay. That's weird.

I go ahead and check online to see where exactly this thing is located. Turns out it's located on the back passenger side of the engine... under the exhaust manifold. Seriously, GM? So it turns out I have to remove the exhaust manifold to get to the stupid thermostat, and not only that, but I also have to completely drain the system and refill it. So a $25, 10 minute job has turned into a $100, 4 hour job, assuming that I don't break one of the studs off the block when I undo the exhaust manifold. Unfortunately, this car was wrecked before I bought it, and I knew that going into the purchase, but the work done to the front end was shoddy at best. I know that manifold has been replaced, and I'm pretty sure no anti-seize was used when they bolted it back in. And if I have to drain it, might as well flush it and do maintenance to it too after all, right?

Anyone want a (very) used Pontiac Sunflower with no heater and a black fender?

[Err]

I remember that on certain GM V6 FWD cars, the rear bank of plugs being damn near impossible to get to. I still love that on many Chrysler cars to change a battery involves removing the left wheel and inner fender.

[normalicy]

It's about 4 hours work to replace the plugs on my Cadillac Catera. You know, because it's important to remove the windshield wipers, front tray, intake, valve covers, & various other lines to replace your plugs. Don't even get me started on the other things. I'll be avoiding luxury vehicles for the rest of my life because of the huge amount of time & money spent on this one. I could have replaced 4 engines in the time that I've spent working on small seemingly unnecessary things in this car.

[EvilHorace]

Sadly many cars these days are assembled in ways that make seemingly simple things turn into bummers. The idea of being user serviceable is long gone but most of these designs are probably easier to assemble with machines, drive trains out of the vehicles.

[DaMaN]

Rear two plugs on my 4.3L V6 2000 Sonoma are a bear as well. Tires come off, wheel well grime flaps removed and a variety of extensions and swivels to remove and just the right touch n' feel to get new ones reinserted.

[Err]

Rear two plugs on my 4.3L V6 2000 Sonoma are a bear as well. Tires come off, wheel well grime flaps removed and a variety of extensions and swivels to remove and just the right touch n' feel to get new ones reinserted.

A guy I work with has the same engine in his Envoy. He's approaching 100k service which means plugs. He's honestly thinking of trading it in.

In contrasr, I can change the plugs in my Charger 5.7 in about 45 minutes. There's 16 of them. This has been one of the easiest cars I've ever owned to perform maintenance on. The battery is even located in the trunk beside the spare. It's odd how some vehicles are easy and some, like the Avenger I had before, were a PITA to work on. To replace the plugs in that 3.5L, you had to remove the upper intake. The battery was located underneath the car and involved removing the left front tire and inner fender.

[eGoCeNTRoNiX]

A guy I work with has the same engine in his Envoy. He's approaching 100k service which means plugs. He's honestly thinking of trading it in.

In contrasr, I can change the plugs in my Charger 5.7 in about 45 minutes. There's 16 of them. This has been one of the easiest cars I've ever owned to perform maintenance on. The battery is even located in the trunk beside the spare. It's odd how some vehicles are easy and some, like the Avenger I had before, were a PITA to work on. To replace the plugs in that 3.5L, you had to remove the upper intake. The battery was located underneath the car and involved removing the left front tire and inner fender.

That's one of the things I hate the most about my 3.5L in my magnum.. My wife's 01 XTerra requires removing the intake to change the driver's side valve cover gasket.. And there is a rats nest of hoses and lines connected to it that are in some of the hardest places to reach. ;\

[renovation]

my 2002 vue is a dream to work on everything is right there in plain vue and the 4 plugs are all under the control/coil pack on top the motor. no wires or dist. to mess with !
not messed with the wifes 2008 yet as it. just fell out of warrienty its a v-6 and right at 49,000 miles my buddy who works the heavy repair /motor rebuilding at the dealership .looked it over and made sure all thing that need or could need replacing soon was done under hood . only thing i know im going to need in the spring is a set of tires.

[GuardianAsher]

my 2002 vue is a dream to work on everything is right there in plain vue and the 4 plugs are all under the control/coil pack on top the motor. no wires or dist. to mess with !
not messed with the wifes 2008 yet as it. just fell out of warrienty its a v-6 and right at 49,000 miles my buddy who works the heavy repair /motor rebuilding at the dealership .looked it over and made sure all thing that need or could need replacing soon was done under hood . only thing i know im going to need in the spring is a set of tires.

Reno, I'm willing to bet that that Vue and my Sunfire have the same motor, a 2.2L Ecotec I4. I hope you never have to replace the thermostat on it

On a side note, when I was driving to work this morning, good half way there, all of a sudden my heater starts working and I see the temp rising just a bit... just in time to look over and see the check engine light come on. Unable to reach optimum operating temperature. And my gas mileage is suffering because of it.

Looks like I have no choice but to tackle it.. I called up to see what it would cost to have it replaced for sh**s and giggles... 10 hours worth of work, $400. Yeah. No thanks

[Koo Koo Mouse]

^ Ouch!!!

[renovation]

2.2L (L-61) 4-cyl. 5-speed Manual
and your right it be no fun if the thermostat should need replacement .i'll send it to a friend to do if the time comes .

[Executioner]

Here is another GM car that I have - 1996 Corvette

It's a late model 1996, one of the last C4 models made. The shocks were the first generation electronic damping (F45), or select a ride with a switch inside the car. The issue? The shocks were made by Delphi and only for that year, and only on those cars with the F45 suspension option. Parts are no longer available. If you find them, the cost for each shock is ~$800. Note I said EACH shock.

Same car - has what they call the opti that replaces the standard distributor. Works fine, but it's where they located it - right underneath the water pump. Water and opti don't work well together.

Same car - fuel filter. I bet they installed the fuel filter before they started to install the engine and other components, because you need hands of a midget to get at the damn thing. It's located underneath the car on the passenger side mounted on the frame. The problem is you have the cat and the starter right there in the same area. They could have easily mounted it inside the engine bay. Plenty of room there. Takes about an hour or more to change the damn thing.

Same car - headlights. The original equipment calls for a rectangle design that is made of plastic. You heard me - plastic. The entire headlight weights about 10 ounces. The replacement that I had to get is made out of glass and weights about 3x more than the original. They went with plastic to reduce the stress on the flip-up assembly. The issue here is the plastic headlights are no longer made and no where to be found even on ebay.

[renovation]

ever want to fine the designer/ designers of your car. take them out to a real garage or driveway (like yours ). have them go hands on and replace the great parts that have gone bad. bet the parts wouldn't of been used or placed like they are on the car in the first place.
friend of mine working at Ford's design complex right now. he was telling a about a heating blower fan that is being used on the new fusion or Lincoln. this fan comes from a Ford Explorer . it was design for the dash heating system. now there making it squeeze into the center counsel to blow air on you feet in the rear seat. why are they using this oversize unit in the center counsel .and not redesigning a new fan unit. because ford will save less then a DOLLAR per car by using this one. also it is used on a different make and model in production.
they are working on redesigning the mustang again to. also the next redesign of the Lincoln and it will have like no detail down the side said it be a very smooth look like a flat sheet of metal. he personally thinks sales will tank when its released next year. there having problems keeping the metal straight. its so flat that it wants to flex. but when the high up decide thats the way a cars going to look or work .they don't want or care to know what the works under have to deal with or think. did you guys know ford still makes the small /midsize Ranger pick up . but will not sell it in north america ?

[normalicy]

ever want to fine the designer/ designers of your car. take them out to a real garage or driveway (like yours ). have them go hands on and replace the great parts that have gone bad.

Oh how many times that exact thought has crossed my mind. It baffles me that anyone who has ever worked on a car can commit some of the atrocities that I've seen.

[EvilHorace]

Sometimes they listen to complaints from techs, at least Lexus does. It's minor stuff really but we're glad when they finally change bad designs.
For example, this year they finally eliminated all of the unnecessary plastic covers under the hood that most of their most of their models have had since the '07 model year. They're useless and always have to be removed to access anything, held in by multiple plastic clips....just a waste of time and plastic. Besides, Lexus owners never open their hoods anyway.
Then their were models with very small access openings to change the oil filters and often oil would then drip all over the covers. If you don't clean it off with brake clean, it'll drip on the owners garage floor. So they finally fixed that on some models (others still suck).
Long ago (until the mid 90s) Volvo 4 cyl cars were actually designed for access to work on things but eventually their engineers also forgot about the guys who have to fix things.