I can't get any networking working!

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:01 am

None of my computers will do anything with the network.
All 3 show they are connected to the router. The router has always worked fine.

Laptop, wireless, Vista Home Will see Giga2 but not access anything.

Giga2, Win7 RC1, 100MB cable connection, does not see anything but router.

Giga1, XP Pro 32bit SP2, 100MB cable connection, does not see anything but router.

All I want is simple everyone has access to everything from anywhere type sharing over the network in this house. NO internet on this network.

Internet is dialup on Giga1
Internet is WIFI hotspots only on Laptop.

I think I have all MS firewalls turned off. Tiny on Giga1, Zone Alarm on Laptop, none on Giga2 yet. I can't find anything blocked that should not be blocked.

Root of drives set to share, everyone with full rights.

Logged on in administrator account on all 3 systems.

And does Windows really need to access every file or folder when I set C: or D: root to be shared?
This is ridiculous how much it reads/writes the drive for each drive I share!
What ever happened to the nice easy fast sharing of Win 2K and earlier?

Every stupid MS trouble shooter that I get says no internet and that's about all it wants to try to find solutions for. I do not want internet shared or on the network!

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:59 am

Need some more details. Was this strange confabulation working properly before and then just stopped working, or is this a new setup?

Have you power cycled all the routers and switches to clear the routing tables? Sometimes it's just a switch whose brains get scrambled.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:12 pm

This is a kinda new setup. The Vista laptop and XP32 bit system were here before, and 3 or 4 others also. Mostly working though there were some problems some would see each other, some would see one but that one would not see first etc... Then I had from 98SE to Vista running on systems.

Last night nothing was doing anything. This morning I have got some things working new.

Giga1 (XP 32bit SP2)
will see Laptop (Vista Home) but access denied. Does not show the shared drives at all.
Will see Giga2 (Win7 64bit RC1) and 2 shared drives, Access Denied for both drives. There is public shared folder stuff I can get to that, but I don't want it there at all.

Laptop (Vista Home) does not see anything but itself.

Giga2 (Win7 64bit RC1)
Will see Giga1 (XP 32bit SP2), sees a shared drive, will access files on that drive now.
Sees Laptop (Vista Home) but get an error message when I try to access it.
Not same access denied error, though probably same reason.

Giga1 and Giga2 are wired to the router, Laptop is wireless.

I named the Giga systems 1 and 2 because they are gigabyte boards I am using there. Giga 1 is a little over a year old, Giga 2 I built this year

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:19 pm

Oh, I know the wireless on the laptop works good at the WIFI hotspots and I am showing full signal to my router here.
I think I have the public WIFI network locked down, but the home network open to share.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:21 pm

Vista and Win7 will give you an access denied under various situations. It's really hard to call without knowing if it was working before, and what changed.

When you say a computer doesn't "see" another computer, what do you mean? You mean browsing for computers in Network Neighborhood? That requires all the PCs to be on the same IP block, and the same workgroup. It is a notoriously unreliable way to connect to another computer on a network ESPECIALLY with mixed OSes all fighting all the time to be the computer that broadcasts the list of computer network names.

Most reliable way to connect to another computer is via it's network name from the run prompt or an explorer window (ie: \\workstation1) or better yet, via it's IP if it has a static IP (\\192.168.1.100).

If there's a computer that's not seeing any other computers, can it ping those computers? If it can't then you have serious issues with your network. The complicated network you describe could easily have a switch patched into itself somewhere or you might have two DHCP servers and half your computers may be talking to the wrong DHCP server and gateway.

If you're running any 3rd party firewalls it could be a nightmare. Norton Security for instance is very aggressive about blocking file and printer sharing.

Vista and Win7 by default have network discovery and file & printer sharing disabled. They also usually have passwords required for shares enabled from the factory.

Even with open shares, if you're sharing a private folder like your docs folder then local file security kicks in. You get into weird situations like, for instance, if the PC sharing the files has a user with the same username as the PC that's trying to access the shared files, then even if the folder is shared with everyone you will still require a password to access the share if the PC sharing the files has a password assigned to that user and the folder is setup as private.

Vista and Win7 also treat the root of the hard drive as a private folder even if it's publicly shared for security reasons.

The best way to share things on a casual home environment on a variety of OSes is to have one PC act as a file server and have a publicly shared folder that is not located in the root or a private folder, and just let everyone use that as the "Shared network" folder.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:00 pm

Ok, I'll read that again, I read it, very tired and blurred eyes so I'll read it again when I am thinking better also.

cratch

I don't want like a public folder share, I put the files where I want them when I am using them and need to have access to them from where ever I had put them. Mostly it is just me going to be using the network from the various systems.

Yes, I have always gone through windows explorer and the network shown below in there. This is where I move or copy files to other places and load up some things like the music. When things worked also some programs I have I think let me go right to the shared drives from the File open or File save windows.
I'll try to get used to using \\gig2 etc.. since that is better and I also hate waiting for windows to search the network and workgroup all the time.
I get this working I think I will also assign static addresses if that helps.
I'd like to know more whats going on also when I get those popups about "something is trying to access something somewhere". I love those detailed messages LOL

I have always ran TINY firewall on all my computers when I was sharing before. I think Tiny would not work in Vista so I have ZoneAlarm there and not to sure about it, not used it very long. I shut off all the firewalls now (unless I connect to internet on this system then I turn it on).

Right now, subject to breaking it again, I have the laptop (vista Home) and Giga2 ( Win7) accessing all the computers and drives shared on the network now.
Not sure how I got that working, changed some settings and also turned off Zone Alarm on the laptop. I run Zone Alarm when at WIFI and it does not block that wireless so not sure if maybe it's been blocking the home wireless?
Maybe that had something to do with seeing laptop there but not the drives?
Today at first I could not find anything from the laptop at all, now it is working.

The Giga1 (XP 32 bit) will see the all the shared drives as being there on the other two systems now, but access is denied to all of them.

My router is Wireless G, Laptop is G or better, what should my transfer rate be now?
Right now I am transferring 13.4gigs from Laptop to Giga2, it shows right around 2.33MB/sec and full signal strength. Sure does seem far slower than I remembered it!
Wireless G is 54MB isn't it? Or 54Mb?
Giga2 is wired so should be 100MB? Or 100Mb
Do I have a speed problem here or is 2.33MB actually about right?
If this is a difference in bytes and bits, then shouldn't I still be getting near 5MB/sec or more?

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:25 am

Wireless speeds will be based on signal strength. You never get 54Mbit because no one every gets a perfect signal unless you're 12 inches from the router, plus there's substantial overhead for encryption if you have it enabled (as you should). Claims for wireless speeds under 802.11G are very overrated. On the other hand I have found 802.11N to be wicked fast.

Yeah 2.33Mbit sounds slow but there's a lot of factors. It may not be a wireless issue if you have some kind of goofy loop back problem or corrupt routing table in your wired network. Did you try power cycling all the routers & switches yet?

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:57 am

Yes, I power cycled the router.
Something strange went on a bit with speeds. Right after I did the 13gigs at 2.33MB I did another set of folder subfolders and got speeds like 90k 280k and stuff like that for awhile.
Must have speeded up when I was not looking because at the slow speeds it was showing it said about 8hours or so, it got done a whole lot sooner though!

I download at WIFI around 180k at the place I go most, and it was showing way less for awhile on my Wireless G here LOL

I'll work on this some more tonight.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:57 am

Vista is not showing the correct speeds or anywhere the correct estimate times I think either.

I copied another set of folders subfolders, Vista showed the transfer speeds going anywhere from 29K to 280K last night. Time left was shown really long time.
I counted 1001 1002 1003 roughly estimating seconds there and watching the remaining transfer size drop. With a rough count like that I seemed to be getting near 4MB per second. I was probably off a good bit counting seconds like that, but definately closer than MS when it was showing 180K LOL

Well last night the Giga2 Win7 64 system could only find the laptop again, not the Giga1 system at all, though it was finding it ok day before?

Have to leave for the day again, I think I will try to set all these up this weekend with assigned addresses. If I can find where everything is, I am getting lost with a few things the way they've moved things around and changed the looks of everything again.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:39 am

Well I wouldn't rely on the Windows transfer rate estimates. There's a dandy freeware program I use for that called Racoonworks Speed Test: http://www.raccoonworks.com/Downloads.html

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:08 am

I grabbed it. At WIFI now getting new drivers for the Giga2 system for Win7 64bit.

I installed Daz Studio 64bit and it won't load, says my OpenGL is only 1.1 but at least 1.3 is required. Win7 RC1 drivers are working pretty good but 1.1 OpenGl?
My drivers for the board on CD won't load, got an Operating System not supported message when I tried those.

It's ATI HD3200 onboard video.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:45 pm

Well I got my new video driver installed, OpenGl 6.??
Daz Studio3 64bit opened and loaded content faster than I ever saw content load before! Maybe just because not much on the drive or installed yet to the system?

I have 4 gigs there, 512mb shared for video, but I won't be adding any more as planned since I just found it tripled in price since last ram I bought.

I will have to set the addresses for the network still. I think I want each computer to have it's own address always, not random. I think it's making a difference at times what system is booted first.

I found I do have to turn off Zone Alarm to see the laptop or the laptop see the other systems. Though that is not always the problem. I had Zone Alarm off last night and could not do anything with laptop on network anyway. I rebooted it and another system and then the laptop could be seen by Giga2 and it also could see both Giga1 and Giga2 after.

I was looking and both Gigas have 10/100/1000 networks built in, I think the laptop might be same so I may buy a new wireless router. Mine is only 10/100 now.
Laptop has built in wireless and also the cable connection built in.
It's a Acer 5515 laptop so I'll look and see what the built in lan speeds are.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:07 pm

You sure that mobo even supports more than 4Gb? I haven't seen too many mobos with shared video memory that could, except recently.

If you're behind a router there is absolutely no need for anything more than the Windows firewall, and you don't even need that. Your router itself is, as a side effect of being a NAT router, is also an excellent inbound hardware router. You will make your networking much simpler. Bloated firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Norton Internet Security will fight you every step of the way if you want to do file or printer sharing.

The only need for an outbound software firewall is if you want to detect something malicious that has infected your system and is phoning home, and arguably your system is already compromised at that point. Far more useful would be to pay for a secondary Anti-Spyware app like Malwarebytes or SpySweeper if you don't mind the major performance hit.

I just use the Windows firewall and that's only because I connect client's PCs to my home network for servicing, otherwise I wouldn't use a firewall at all. As a serious gamer I want as little between me and the gateway as possible.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:58 pm

I have to remember to shut off Zone Alarm on the laptop when home. It's set to load at bootup because that's the one for WIFI.
I use it to block outgoing also, for instance if IE is opened by accident it is blocked :lol

This system with XP 32bit I still use Tiny and it's on dialup, I have caught allot of stuff with Tiny in the past coming from ISP that should not have been. That was the other ISP, the one that got hacked a couple times and shut down a few years ago. I also block anything MS from going to the internet too, IE, Media Player, etc....

I guess the new system I do not need a firewall at all then since it has no net connection of any type.

I think the two desktops are less than a year old. I know my newest one I built earlier this year, I think around April, the other maybe more like a year ago? Both are Gigabyte boards with onboard video.
I think the specs for both are about 16gigs for supported ram though I have not tried anymore than 4gigs in the newest one and still only 2 gigs in the other.
I am watching and hoping Ram prices drop again soon!

I have the laptop and Giga2 accessing everything now, the XP32 bit system Giga1 still cannot get to the other computers at all though, the systems are shown but still cannot get to the files on the drive. It's a pain I have to go to one of the other computers to SEND files to this computer because I can not get to them from this one.

Been using the Win7 64 bit some, still not installed much, I like it I guess but I really hate the Win Explorer setup. I'll have to watch for tricks to make it back to a W2K type Win Explorer.