I'm ready to retire...RANT

Executioner · Post by **Executioner** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:53 pm

[RANT]

As most of you know, I'm a Group Leader for an internal calibration lab. I could not believe what this one person was telling me:

5.0% and 5% are different values

I just about fell out of my chair, considering the person saying this is a Quality Engineer. I told her that if the value was 5.0000000000000000000000000000000001%, then yes they would be different values (you get the picture). Even her supervisor told me the same thing that 5.0% and 5% are different values.

I'm so sick of the stupidity of some people, and it's getting worst to the point that I'm ready to retire at the ripe age of 51 to get away from this crap that only gives me more gray hair.

Yesterday, from the same people, they were arguing with me about calibration intervals, because we had to reduce some of them on their equipment due to the failure rate. She tells me that I don't have the right to reduce them without their permission LOL.

Last month, these same 2 people were complaining about having passwords removed from our calibration procedures, because they felt it should not be documented anywhere. I had to explain to her that we need the password to access their equipment to perform calibrations, and that we need to contact them verbally for the password. Well, I won this fight, but jesus christ!

[/RANT]

Slugbait · Post by **Slugbait** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:06 pm

This reminds me of the scene in T2 when he sweeps the minigun across the parking lot at the cops, and when he's finished, his heads up display reads "Casualties: 0.0"

And I always think to myself, can a terminator tell if someone is MOSTLY dead...?

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:37 pm

I can kinda understand where they are comming from thinking that .050 and .05 are different values... in a number sense they are exactly the same... but for me and machining the extra zero denotes tollerance. where .05 is ±.01 and .050 is ±.001

SO .05 can be made .04~.06 and .050 can be made .051~.049. other then that example they are full of ****.

b-man1 · Post by **b-man1** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:53 pm

i guess it would only matter if you are required to specify significant digits for certain calibrations, etc...then the trailing zeros would matter...but otherwise it is just a play on words.

Qui Gon-Jinn · Post by **Qui Gon-Jinn** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:54 pm

ever consider just looking at them and saying "Here's your sign".. and walking away..

I have a similar deal.. customers come in.. we ask them what is your windows logon password.. one guy was like "I am not telling you".. I looked at him.. told him simple.. you tell me now.. or I will tell you what i changed it to and charge you an extra fee for the time I have to spend breaking into your computer so that I am able to repair it.. he looked at me. and wrote down "password" I had to go in the back room after that and laugh..

and I do charge.. $35 to crack your PW.. an hour labor.. even though it takes all of 3 min's.. they don't know that. and if I told them I could do it that fast.. they would never give me the password.. but if they think they are getting a deal and not paying $35.. they give it up..

Do you take your vehical to the mechanic and ask him to repair a strange noise in the motor.. and not leave the keys?

anyway.. stupidity. .is running rampat.. I propose we just all carry a handgun.. and eliminate the useless ppl of the world.. crime rate would go down.. and our "Standings" in the global economy would go up if we are lucky..

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:03 pm

I spent an entire evening arguing with a guy who swore that the opposite of clear was gray...

Jim Z · Post by **Jim Z** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:03 pm

5.0% and 5% are different values

they are, when they relate to the precision of your instrument. Stating "5.0%" indicates that a measurement was made to the tenths, and the instrument was capable of this measurement (a precision of 0.1.) Stating "5%" indicates that the measurement was only capable of a precision of 1.

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:57 pm

but regardless 5% is 5% no matter 5.0% or 5.0000000000000000000000000000000000000% is still FIVE PERCENT

Jim Z · Post by **Jim Z** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:03 pm

but regardless 5% is 5% no matter 5.0% or 5.0000000000000000000000000000000000000% is still FIVE PERCENT

THEY'RE MATHEMATICALLY EQUIVALENT BUT THEY MAY MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS, AS I EXPLAINED.

call it a poor choice of wording on their part. I work in a testing & validation lab myself, and if I tell someone I measured a widget to be 5%, that is different than if I told them that I measured it to be 5.0%. If I use an instrument that has a precision of 1, meaning it's only precise to within 1%, and I report the result as 5.0% instead of 5%, then I have for all intents and purposes falsified data. I would be reporting results that the instrument could not possibly measure.

Executioner · Post by **Executioner** » Thu May 11, 2006 10:03 pm

Originally posted by Jim Z
THEY'RE MATHEMATICALLY EQUIVALENT BUT THEY MAY MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS, AS I EXPLAINED.

call it a poor choice of wording on their part. I work in a testing & validation lab myself, and if I tell someone I measured a widget to be 5%, that is different than if I told them that I measured it to be 5.0%. If I use an instrument that has a precision of 1, meaning it's only precise to within 1%, and I report the result as 5.0% instead of 5%, then I have for all intents and purposes falsified data. I would be reporting results that the instrument could not possibly measure.

Correct, but she was stating they were the same mathematical equivalent. She wanted us to round our value to the nearest whole value, and I said NO. We have to report what our standard reads, even if it reads 5 decimal places. She continued to argue that they are both different.

Jim Z · Post by **Jim Z** » Fri May 12, 2006 7:00 am

Correct, but she was stating they were the same mathematical equivalent. She wanted us to round our value to the nearest whole value, and I said NO. We have to report what our standard reads, even if it reads 5 decimal places. She continued to argue that they are both different.

Ah. I think I get it now.

MK888 · Post by **MK888** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:27 pm

I spent an entire evening arguing with a guy who swore that the opposite of clear was gray...

:lol :lol :lol

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:23 pm

Yeah i agreee that the extra zeros are simply there for tolerance as i decribed in my original statement... but when doing calibration or measurements the extra zeros can make a differance. Like i said wiht maching ... if you have a part and need it to be exactly 1/2" in diameter then you better tell me to make it 0.500 (this means to the thousand (0.001) where 1/2" normaly means +- .062)

I fully understand the concept of degree of accuracy despide my lack of correct spelling.