No FSAA for Nvidia cards with HL2

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sbp
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No FSAA for Nvidia cards with HL2

Post by sbp »

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/disp ... 55730.html
The developers of the legendary Half-Life game said that drivers are not likely to solve the problem, however, it still can be solved for graphics cards based on VPUs from ATI Technologies, such as RADEON 9500-, 9600-, 9700- and 9800-series. As for NVIDIA GeForce and GeForce FX-series, there are practically no chances to find a workaround, according to Valve.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthr ... genumber=1

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Well geez wonder what company's cards everyone will be getting. Image
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FlyingPenguin
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Post by FlyingPenguin »

Some industry sources indicated that the problem with such FSAA is a known one and is to be addressed in DirectX 9.1 and next-generation graphics processors with Pixel Shaders 3.0 and Vertex Shaders 3.0, such as ATI Technologies’s code-named R420 and NVIDIA’s code-named NV40 VPUs and derivatives. Both next-generation products will come later than the Half-Life 2 that is expected to be available by October.
We all knew that HL2 would be setting a new standard for hardware. I like most people am holding off on buying a new vid card until HL2 is released so I can get a card that's best optimized for the game.

Basically all they're saying is that present hardware is not fully DX9 compliant (at least as regards FSAA), but you bet your ass that any hardware released after HL2 will be.
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Post by DocSilly »

I don't know where the problem is, my games look perfect without FSAA ...

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Post by FlyingPenguin »

Actually I've NEVER used FSAA. I still don't see enough of a visual difference in FPS games to rationalize the loss in performance.

I only play FPS games online - not going to sit there and admire the scenery. I'd much rather crank the resolution up instead of using FSAA at a lower res.
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Quine
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Post by Quine »

Some of us have crappy monitors buy nice computers, lol. Max resolution @ 1024X768. FSAA is a very nice feature when you are me. So is 16X AF, cuz i like everything being clear as far as you can see :D
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tunis5000
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Post by tunis5000 »

I've been buying nvidia cards since the tnt2, but looks like an ATI 9800 Pro is in my future, and not just because of HL2...
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Post by Mike89 »

Heh heh, good one Doc! :o And to think of all that money I spent on my 9800 Pro for FSAA and didn't even need it! ;)
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Post by tweakbox »

That's going to suck. I've got a 5900 ultra and the graphics in hl2 are going to look like shit? I guess I'll have to steal my brothers 9600 pro then if that's actually the case. I would think that there has to be a fix somewhere for that though. And I would think that someone would be getting on it real quick as well.
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sbp
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Post by sbp »

http://www.rage3d.com/#1059005642

More on Half Life 2 and AntiAliasing

Gabe Newell, Valve's main man has commented on Half Life 2 and DX9 cards. Click the link for the whole discussion as it's rather informative. Here's the post in it's entirety



Since people seem to be hyperventilating over the anti-aliasing issue, I thought I'd update everyone.
1) How bad is the problem?

With current multi-sample implementations of anti-aliasing, you may sample texels outside of the polygon boundary, which may result in sampling light maps from other polygons.

This has always been a problem. This is a problem with Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3, Daikatana, Sin, Elite Force, Half-Life, Counter-Strike on the X-Box, or any game that uses packed lightmaps with multi-sample anti-aliasing.

You would see these artifacts on polygon boundaries where the wrong lightmap is being sampled. It will look like a bright or dark line on the edge of a polygon.

Gary McTaggart brought this up in an email because he is being pretty hardcore about graphics quality right now. This is not a new problem. If you've run a game that uses lightmaps with anti-aliasing turned on, then you've been seeing these artifacts the whole time.

Artifacts may show up more frequently in Half-Life 2 simply because we've eliminated lots of other artifacts, and because we have a lot of variation in scene lighting due to our art direction.

To put this in perspective, not doing tri-linear filtering on mipmaps is a lot worse.

2) What are potential solutions?

Support Centroid Sampling

Use Pixel Shaders to Clamp Texture Coordinates

Centroid sampling doesn't have the problem that center sampling does in multi-sample antil-aliasing. ATI has supported this form of anti-aliasing for the 9000 series. The tricky part is enabling this when DirectX doesn't easily expose this.

There's a different trick you can use with hardware, such as NVIDIA's, that doesn't support centroid sampling. Basically you trade off some pixel shader bandwidth to clamp the texture coordinates so that you don't sample texels outside of that polygon's lightmap sub-rect.

Between these two approaches, multi-sample anti-aliasing artifacts should be a non-issue for any DX9-level hardware running Pixel Shader 2.0.

3) How will this look?

We'll release one of the demo movies with the anti-aliasing artifacts in and one with the anti-aliasing changes.

Source: http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthr ... eadid=3071
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sbp
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Post by sbp »

FPS games are far from the only type of game. Ok so some don't use FSAA, but the rest of us do. And geez don't say no anisotropic filtering is used. Image

"and the graphics in hl2 are going to look like shit?" No, they won't, you'll barely notice it {see post above}.

Ironic thing is older cards using supersampling anti-aliasing will be fine. Of course its unlikely you'll be able to use AA with these older cards {got bigtime performance drop}.

Ok you can use Pixel Shaders to clamp the texture coordinates.
Here's the problem for Nvidia...its pixel shaders are weaker than the 9700/9800 series.
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