An idea... Would you use this?

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:37 am

I'm not a hardware engineer by a long shot, but I know my way around BasicStamps and a soldering iron pretty well and got to thinking.

A device, code named "FanMaster". A PCI card which features the following:

Inputs for up to 10 3 wire fans.
several inputs for temperature probes
2 inputs for a molex (one for addition card power), as well as 2 outputs (controlled by the card)
2 additional inputs, 1 a pressure monitor, 1 an air speed monitor
built in support for daughtercards for future upgrades.

It's a weird idea, but try to follow along.

Plug your fans into this card, install the software. Run, say, Prime95.

Over a timeframe of about, say, 1 hour, the system will monitor air temperature in several places in the PC, as well as air pressure and speed. Comparing it to the CPU temperature, it will vary the speeds of all the fans and arrive at the "sweet spot", where air is flowing through the case at maximum velocity and offering the highest degree of cooling.

Take it a step further, tell it your case and fan types, and it can use pre-defined settings to provide advanced cooling "out of the box".

Using several diffrent temperature monitors, and knowing how to power the fans to get air to where it should be going, it could even monitor hot spots and when one develops, actively adjust fan settings to cool it down.

Add on the LED/Cathode daughter board, and it will control your lights in your case as well.

Hook it up to an LCD on your case, and it can instantly display such things as the current positive/negative case pressure, CFM through the case, speed of all the fans, current settings, etc.

The extra molex connectors are to allow the board itself to control certain things (cpu pumps, etc)

A nice optional card cover, chromed, with the logo in lexan on top that glows via a 4 in 1 LED to make it look aesthetically pleasant.

Hell, it's almost infinitely upgradeable. And considered more of a hard core overclocker/case modder tool.

There's more here then I can list, but on a casual parts lookup I thini it would probably run about 100$/parts, sell it for around 130$ or so. Because you can use daughtercards, which would only cost 20$-30$ each, it would be easy to upgrade cheaply.
I'm guessing it'd take little old me over a year to build it, since a lot of what it needs I lack in the knowledge. And the card would be a tad on the high side because of the cost of retail (ever price having PCB's made for you, talk about highway robbery)

I don't know about you, but I think it's a pretty good idea. Make a nice well-rounded software suite + a complete API so people can write their own programs to interface with it and we could have a winner. What do you guys think? Anything you could add to this?

sheerdark · Post by **sheerdark** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:48 am

that sounds really awesome....if you get it done...shoot me an email...I would buy one

Good Luck!

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:20 pm

I tryed that onece with a pic chip and ISA long ago... i still want one that has 100 or so outpus. for running TONS of LEDs in my case.

I have a light mod that is in the works that will involve more the 100 leds in my case... should be bright as hell when its done.

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 7:26 pm

Well, that's the beauty of it. With daughterboards on top and underneath, you can easily addon diffrent expansion cards.

Thing is, how could you get 100 LED's on it and still look good? That's 200 wires strewn through the case, ya know?

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 7:42 pm

Sounds intreasting...whatabout the water block stuff.

and did you wid a Good mill shop? cause I have friends that wana see some of there heatsink ideas taped out also.

Greg

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 7:48 pm

Originally posted by nexus_7
Sounds intreasting...whatabout the water block stuff. and did you wid a Good mill shop? cause I have friends that wana see some of there heatsink ideas taped out also.

Greg

Not yet Greg. I'm in a small town, so it's tough to find stuff like that. But if I don't get this job in Milwaukee, I'm going to see if I can work for this company that makes farm machines. Schmooz with one of the shop guys and get him to mill stuff for me.

Hell, I figure if this job doesn't go through, then my chances of getting back into IT are almost non-existant so I'll fo the second best thing: Create a small start up!

The electronics in this little guy are way beyond my current level of knowledge, but with some book reading and experimentation, I hope I can pull this off, because I think this (as well as my other ideas) will make for a good little company ya know.

I may be slow, but I get it done. And when I get up to speed, WHATCH OUT! hehe
And when I'm a millionaire and think back and how PCA has helped shape my company, I'll send you a dozen keychains or something

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:19 am

Originally posted by Pugsley
I tryed that onece with a pic chip and ISA long ago... i still want one that has 100 or so outpus. for running TONS of LEDs in my case.

I have a light mod that is in the works that will involve more the 100 leds in my case... should be bright as hell when its done.

Damn you pugsley!

You have my creative juices flowing. Something like that would be a lot easier to build, I could do it in a few months I believe. Something like 100 LED's though would require about 2.8 Amps of power by themselves (avg of 28mA * 100).

Now, something like the Antec True550 (Which I'll assume they would probably be using, because we are talking about serious modders and such here) pulls normally 10 Amps @ 115VAC and has a max output of 40Amps for the +5/-5 +3.3V rail (combined).

I don't know if the PC bus can supply that kind of current. (Lord knows I looked all over for specs on power drain of a few motherboards, but it does supply 5 volts.

Probably be safer to use a 5.25 bay with a molex input or 2.

I dunno, I get all fired up just thinking about it though! hehe

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:23 am

could do like the new videocards do and have a Molex plug on it.

Greg

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 2:55 am

Yeah, but I think that's sorta cheesy. Talked to some people, and they think the max the PCI bus can hole is 7-10 Amp. Seeing as I'd need about 3, it MAY be workable, but probably still better as a 5.25 bay.

Though a software program to control the lights could still be made, say a connection via USB to the bay insert.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 7:56 am

I like your idea, except for it being a PCI card.

Why bother with the slot at all. I'm not a tech, but it seams to me several problems might occure. One you run into lots of people like me that would worry about frying the motherboard from an over load. Don't know how much those little lines can carry that are etched in there.

How many slots would the card actually take? All my systems have a APG slot as the top slot. Not alot of room beneath the bottom slot either.
So the card inserts into only one slot, but you got all those wires you have to tuck in there somehow. Most likely the wires will cover at least one slot to where it's not available.

Then you get into those extras
"Inputs for up to 10 3 wire fans.
several inputs for temperature probes
2 inputs for a molex (one for addition card power), as well as 2 outputs (controlled by the card)
2 additional inputs, 1 a pressure monitor, 1 an air speed monitor
built in support for daughtercards for future upgrades."
Just sounds like most of my PCI slots got covered over and a tangle of wires right were I don't want them too! Not a real easy way to hide wires running to a slot!

Now on the other hand, if it were a little box maybe the size of a hard drive that I could mount anyplace in the case, like screw it in above the P/S or an extra 5.25 drive bay, mount it out of site on the other side of the hard drive cage Maybe just mount it to the bottom of the case under the drive cages etc.. then I would have all my slots and the wires are easy to run and hide. If your going to have extra connecter for power input anyway and not rely just on PCI power why bother with the slot at all. You could conect by USB for the software controlls like a printer or scanner does couldn't you? And run it straight off the power supplie?

Also another thought, is it going to produce any heat itself, if so I could mount it in front of a fan

Seems to me it would be easier to build as a seperate unit too. No Edge connectors to worry about for the slot contacts and you wouldn't be limited to size as far as fitting it in between two other cards. So if you need to use anything like a large cap no problem. You wouldn't have to mount the sockets for the wires at right angles or worry about them hitting other cards that might be needed like modems or lan cards. Also some of those 4 pin Molexes can be tough to unplug at times, if stuck on a card between two other cards might be easy to break something if you gotta unplug for some reason. Been a couple times I thought I was gonna break a hardrive or cdRW they were so hard to get off, and that was securely mounted and easy to get to. I can imagine a flimsy card with one screw on the slot cover holding it in, and all the other stuff in the way?

It always annoys me when I buy something new then have to re-arange my PCI cards that are already installed to make it fit!

But I like the idea for the controller, other than being in a slot

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:05 pm

Well, true, I just liked the idea of building a PCI card hehe.

I think I can do all of it via USB, heck with the internal USB headers on most boards, you probably wouldnt even need an ugly cable going from outside the box to the inside.

I like your idea of a seperate control box Kid. Maybe all the LED & Fans, etc could connect to a slim box like that that you could hide, then have the control cables going to the main 5.25 box. Or maybe even a 3.5 slot.

Problem is, Im going to want to try to make everybody happy, and doing so I'll make no one happy hehe.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:36 am

A word of wisdom, "Never try to make everyone happy, in doing so you only make yourself miserible when you fail. It can't be done!" The only TRUE reason for saying "I can't do it"!
Otherwise always say " I can try", at least!

Instead look at market opertunity, what has the largest potential to sell to the most people?
Cost to produce and profit of sales.

Or make both Pci and USB versions and cover both

Sure, I think you should be able to connect to the M/b USB headers same as the case does for front usb. I don't know how the USB hubs work to make 2 or 4 usb ports from one, but maybe you could even use a pass through connector or similar connect on your device so the user doesn't lose the front usb from that connection also.

Another thought on not using the PCI slot, I've seen many M/b's with only 3 slots, though I haven't bought any of those myself. I have 2 pci cards now and may add a PCI IDE controller soon, so if I had a 3 slot board that would knock out your Pci device. I do have extra USB and Lots of space in the case though, so then it would still be an option.

I do think you have a good idea for a new product.

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:24 am

Well, I've been looking into it, and Im sure it can be done via USB, so I'll do it that way.

Ok, I was thinking more about. How about the primary module (Now called the Base System) will be in a single height 5.25 bay.

One molex going into it. One "Fan Header" as it where, with the ability to connect either in the back, or on the right side (so as to hide it)
"Fan Header' will contain the leads needed for connecting the fans and such.

Another leadout in the back of the box connects to the air monitoring, which can be temporary. These contain the probes for temperature, air flow and pressure sensors and other 'setup tools'.

A third connection in the back will be for breakout boxes or expansion modules. This is where you'd connect the LED add-on, as well as other addons.

There will still be a slot connector inside the box for the install of internal modules for future upgrades.

Software... Thinking it will be primarially 1 program, and for every module you add on the hardware side, you'd install a software plugin to the suite. Implement a lot of the MBM5 stuff into it, and try to make it as small of a resource hog as possible.

Hell, I already thought of a cool little thing for the LED module: A Winamp plugin that'll flash your case LED's in tune to the music.

I dunno, if this works, I bet I win the case mod contest at the PCA LAN 2004 hehehe

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:44 am

Ok, I think your on to something here,

If I may suggest, keep the box as small and thin as posible. Unless you have stuff to display like leds or need the open 5.25 bay for a reason other than mounting, some people might still want to mount in other places and use the drive bay for a drive or somethng.

If it works out well to do so, if the device were say, the size of a hardrive or smaller, in a neat little box, it would be easy to mount in many places out of the way or hidden inside the case. Maybe include rails or standoffs for those who do want to mount it in a bay though.

For instance in most of my cases I have lots of room from the drive cages to the bottom of the case, from the front to about 3/4 way to the back. I could velcro a box there nicley or even screw it down.
This is an unused area of about 4.5"h x 4.5"w x 10"L. Most of my cases have extra space there though the size varies.

Also I have about enough room above the P/s to mount a CD drive, and that is clear space all the way to the front top drive bay.

On the other side of my 3.5 drive cages is an empty space about 3w" x 12"h x 4.5L". No use for it currently. If I were to pull the cages I could easily mount a hard drive there with angle brackets right next to the M/b maybe even two drives, then just put the cages in and forget em.

On the other hand, I have only 1 5.25 bay empty and maybe not for long at that. I do have 2 3.5 hidden bays and one open 3.5 bay empty.

Also if you use an open 5.25 drive bay aren't you limited to having connecters only on the back side of the box? Drive cage is on both sides, and I certianly would not run wires around the front of my case

I don't know how big your box would need to be in any direction, but for example the size of a harddrive. If you could make it with screw mounts centerd in the sides so that it could be mounted in any position then put conecters on one end and one side, it could be fliped and flopped around in any position to point the connecters in the correct direction for access now matter where it was mounted. With little L brackets screwed into the sides I could use any one of the 3 useless spaces I mentioned.

For me depending on any heat problems, the place I would most likely mount something like that would be above the P/s.

Judg3 · Post by **Judg3** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:51 am

True true, some very good points.

I think Ill make it, then worry about how to package it. We could both be totally off and it'd require a teeny tiny amount of space, or it could go the other way, and need an insane amount of space.

Either way, I think Ill build a working one. Then see how many of the chips I can get into a single chip. Reducing it in size makes it harder to add in upgrade cards/modules, unless I do it via all external connections. Sorta like a, hrmm... Sort of like adding a PC to your network I suppose. The main box would be like the hub/router, and the addon modules would be like the individual PCs you add.

But it might raise the price of modules, though I'm not sure. (Original plan was: Big beefy central unit @ a higher price (150$ or so), then smaller modules at around 30-40$ each that plug into it like legos)

We'll see though.