Networking problem

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:42 pm

Ok once again I have all these sytems and the problem that go with them!

Wife's computer, the bios star win 98se, and the kids system the shuttle ak35 win2000pro, can both see my system on the network win 2000 pro. I can see both of their systems. They cannot see each other though!

Any ideas? I thought we should all be able to see each other and transfer files whereever whenever.
Not the case. I download from the net on the wifes system, transfer over the lan to my system, then over the lan to the kids system!

I have a linksys 10/100 card in all systems, 5 port switching hub.

Shouldn't I be able to transfer from the kids system to the wifes directly? Silly question, I know I should, so why can't I??

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 5:43 pm

98 sometimes does that. No good reason for it.

You can do one of two things: You can click Start->Search->Computers on each 98 system and search for the other computer by it's network name. Then make a shortcut to it.

Another workaround is to install the NetBeui network protocal on both the 98 systems. There's some security issues with that if you're on broadband, but if you're using a router and share passwords it's no big deal.

CaterpillarAssassin · Post by **CaterpillarAssassin** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:09 am

fp, i thought that because netbeui was unroutable that it was a more secure solution if you were behind a router? Can u explain a little more if I'm wrong? thanks

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:05 am

Me and the kid are both running 2000 pro, the wife is the only one right now with 98se, although I'll be putting a 4th and 5th online soon that might be 98 se because of old cpu's and small drives.

I'll try that search and short cut trick. I think I did something like that before, but will try again!

But should'nt the kid's win2000pro still be able to see wifes 98se?

It's almost as if the other two are looking at my system as a file server and as the only shared system on the lan for some reason.

Floater · Post by **Floater** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 11:53 am

im not an expert, but i believe for a 98 machine to see other computers on the network, it has to be logged into the same workgroup as the others.... which in turn means you'd need w2k server in order to specify and manage that workgroup... i just went through the same problem and just ended up installing W2K on the 98 machine... its much better seeing other computers on a lan.

somebody check me if im wrong about the above.

CaterpillarAssassin · Post by **CaterpillarAssassin** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:00 pm

that is true that you need to be in the same workgroup. But you dont need win2k server for that. Just simply specify for all the computers that your in the "home" workgroup and that should be that.

Busby · Post by **Busby** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:28 pm

I thought you could just browse the Entire Network and see the different workgroups in 98....that workgroup in and of itself does not affect the ability to see another computer, unless you're talking about just opening the Network Neighborhood and seeing it there. Then again I haven't dealt with 98se in like a year, still remember it but all main computers I use and do some support on use Win2k, except the shitty school computers.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:51 pm

No 98 usually won't see any workgroup but it's own, although you can still address computers outside the workgroup, and search for them.

Most of us who are concerned about security used to use NetBeui for file sharing. Unfortunately NetBeui support was dropped in XP (although you can still install it in XP - there's a way to manually install it).

The way you NetBeui secure was that you would un-bind TCP-IP from "Client for Microsoft Networks" and "File and Printer Sharing", and you'd leave them bound for NetBeui. This way TCP/Ip would only be used for net access and have no way of accessing files via NetBIOS. NetBeui would only be used for file sharing and since it was unroutable, it stopped dead at your internet connection.

Until Win2K and XP were released, NetBeui was also a lot faster and more stable for file transfers.

The technique is explained here on Gibson Research's site: http://grc.com/su-bondage.htm

I used to do this on my home network until I decided that since all my clients and the rest of the world were using TCP/IP exclusively, I should also to learn by example. So I run TCP/Ip exclusively, but I have strict file sharing security: all shared resources are password protected and I run behind a NAT router that uses port stealthing.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:41 am

I tried to search for the other two systems from each other with my system shut down even. No go.
As far as the other two are concerned they don't exist, both will only see mine.

One is a Win 2000 the other win 98se, although niether can see or find each other, they both can see my win 2000 when I have it on.

Kinda wierd since I set up all three. They should all be in the same workgroup, the only one I set up

I'll try again

Just got the wife a new printer today, so now she won't have to use the one on my system, so if I fubar it where nothing works on the lan, she can still get her work done

By the way, last chance for the cannon I850 cheap, $148 at sams club, cannon has a $30 rebate, purchase has to be made before 2/28. Thats $118 plus tax after rebate. Cheapest I found online is newegg like $189 pus shipping. I got two now

Busby · Post by **Busby** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:45 am

Have you tried doing a ping and using the computer names? If that works then you might want to try a \\Computer name and see if you can see it. If that doesn't work then a search on http://groups.google.com might yield an answer

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:55 am

You sure your cables are good? Are they home made? It's EASY to screw up homemade cables. It's possible to get a link light and have a bad pair.

canton_kid · Post by **canton_kid** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:33 pm

Pretty sure all the cables are OK.
2 Are the Linksys cables that came with the lan cards, and the other was made at the computer shop for me 50' or 75'. But anyway I can see and transfer with those 2 systems fine from mine so I am sure the cables are ok, they both transfer with me too.

Just each other they can't find!

Just had a busy weekend, Fund raiser on Sat, and a slow snowy trip sunday, school out today for snow here.

Haven't had time to mess with the lan much, but did a search/find and nothing from either system.
That was with mine shutdown, so they were the only two online at the time. Also tried with mine on, same thing.

I might redo the whole lan, try to delete everything then set it all back up again from scratch. Not often I can't figure something out, especally with all the great help on the site from everyone, but this has got me stumped!

I might try putting another system on the lan and see what that does, what it can find. Problem is it only has a tiny hardrive (850mb) so win 95 or 98 might be all it can handle

I'm short on drives at the moment

Look out Newegg, here I come

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:48 pm

I'd check those cables made by the shop. You get ALL KINDS of wacky problems with bad cables - may SEEM to work okay, but does strange things.

Making cables is a suck-ass job and they usually make the new kid do it. Some of those bozos making cables in computer shops don't know how to do it.

MAJOR GOTCHA: They presume that the color code doesn't matter, as long as the same wires are connected to the same pins on both ends. Unfortunately that's not the case.

PAIRING is of paramount importance since standard CAT5 is not shielded. There are 4 pairs in the cable and the pairs are twisted around each other which creates an electrical shield. If you seperate a pair, you destroy the shielding.

You can get away with it on short runs (under 6') but on long runs you get major packet loss.

I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a new client's office who's having sporadic network problems, just to find out the bozo who ran the wires did it wrong.

Use this diagram to confirm they're wired correctly (you can just make out the colors through the clear plastic connector):