Before i get into water cooling what does everyone have to say about it?
got any experiences in it.
likes/dislikes
pros/cons
if heard rumors thats its not worth it...?>M><M>??
water cooling
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wannabetech
- Genuine Member
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 8:59 pm
- Location: memphis, tn
- Contact:
I have been watercooling for about two years now...
It is quiet and very effective. Those are the strong points. My son has a heatsink with a 38 cfm delta on it, and I can't stand the noise his rig makes.
Negatives are cost, complexity and maintenance...
Cost - it aint cheap, even if you do it on the cheap... Most kits are pretty expensive... So if you do it yourself, you can count on the following..
Waterblock (unless you make your own) $45
Pump (Eheim or Supreme Mag-Drive) $50
Chevette Heater Core from Auto Zone $15
Tubing, Fittings, etc. $15
120 mm Fan for Rad $5-15
Complexity - you need to fit all this junk in your case, or locate it near your case. You better rig up up a relay to turn on your pump and fan when you start your computer or you will forget one day and burn everything up. Changing your CPU is always going to be a b*tch because of all the hoses, etc.
Maintenance - You need to keep your system filled. Even with a closed system, there is still some evaporative loss... the system also needs to be flushed out every six months or so and you have to be careful with what you use for coolant or you will have stuff growing in your system, mineral scaling and corrosion.
I went to water cooling when you could still cool off a cpu with a peltier that cost less than $40 and didn't require an under-desk nuclear power plant. It was a must for that application...
I am still using it now and have even added watercooling to my Voodoo 5...
Some of the more advanced heatsinks out there perform as well as water. If you can stand the noise, they are a lot less work. On the other hand, my cpu and video card are both overclocked and my system is quieter than my girlfriend's Dell....
It is quiet and very effective. Those are the strong points. My son has a heatsink with a 38 cfm delta on it, and I can't stand the noise his rig makes.
Negatives are cost, complexity and maintenance...
Cost - it aint cheap, even if you do it on the cheap... Most kits are pretty expensive... So if you do it yourself, you can count on the following..
Waterblock (unless you make your own) $45
Pump (Eheim or Supreme Mag-Drive) $50
Chevette Heater Core from Auto Zone $15
Tubing, Fittings, etc. $15
120 mm Fan for Rad $5-15
Complexity - you need to fit all this junk in your case, or locate it near your case. You better rig up up a relay to turn on your pump and fan when you start your computer or you will forget one day and burn everything up. Changing your CPU is always going to be a b*tch because of all the hoses, etc.
Maintenance - You need to keep your system filled. Even with a closed system, there is still some evaporative loss... the system also needs to be flushed out every six months or so and you have to be careful with what you use for coolant or you will have stuff growing in your system, mineral scaling and corrosion.
I went to water cooling when you could still cool off a cpu with a peltier that cost less than $40 and didn't require an under-desk nuclear power plant. It was a must for that application...
I am still using it now and have even added watercooling to my Voodoo 5...
Some of the more advanced heatsinks out there perform as well as water. If you can stand the noise, they are a lot less work. On the other hand, my cpu and video card are both overclocked and my system is quieter than my girlfriend's Dell....
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canton_kid
- Golden Member
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2002 5:01 pm
- Contact:
Lmandrake do you have any problems with condensation?
I had thought about trying a water cooling, but I live in a humid area and that was something I wondered about.
I know water and electronics don't mix well, and was worried about getting condensation inside the case, either around the CPU or dripping off the Sink.
I wasn't planning to use ice water in particular, but you should see a porcelain toliet tank in the summer here, looks like you sprayed it with a hose!
The plastic tank on the toliet we have now doesn't do that, but man you could have filled a drinking glass in a day off the porcelain one. Course that water was comming into it a bit cold from the well too though.
canton_kid
I had thought about trying a water cooling, but I live in a humid area and that was something I wondered about.
I know water and electronics don't mix well, and was worried about getting condensation inside the case, either around the CPU or dripping off the Sink.
I wasn't planning to use ice water in particular, but you should see a porcelain toliet tank in the summer here, looks like you sprayed it with a hose!
The plastic tank on the toliet we have now doesn't do that, but man you could have filled a drinking glass in a day off the porcelain one. Course that water was comming into it a bit cold from the well too though.
canton_kid
Unless you are chilling the water somehow, condensation is not an issue. Your water is going to be at room temperature or higher at all times. Your toilet tank gets refilled from a source that is colder than room temp and represents a much larger volume of water.
If your toilet sat for a day or two without being used and refilled from that cold source, I think you would not see any condensation on the tank.
If your toilet sat for a day or two without being used and refilled from that cold source, I think you would not see any condensation on the tank.
A peltier is a thermoelectric device - basically you put electricity in and one side of the pelt gets cold and the other gets hot. You have to get rid of the heat from the hot side, or it burns up. Pelts come in a variety of configurations and capacities. Basically, the more "cooling" capacity the pelt has, the more electrical power it requires.
Pelts were never that popular because they require a lot of effort and expense to get it right. Using the cold side to cool your cpu requires that your cpu, socket and mainboard be well insulated or frost and condensation will collect and kill your rig. At the same time, you have to cool the hot side and if you use a heatsink and fan, you are just pumping warm air into your case. Water cooling is really a must. Also, pelts with enough power to do any good require a separate power supply since the effective ones use at least 72 watts of power.
Once T-Birds came on the scene, with the attendant high power consumption and heat output, it became both difficult and expensive to find a pelt with enough power output to cool off the cpu enough to make it worthwhile. At the same time, power requirements for the pelt went up, meaning more expensive and hard to find power supplies.
A pelt does not allow you to do away with fans. Heat still needs to be displaced. Any water cooling system still needs to have a fan or else a huge radiator or a big reservoir. One guy who wanted silent cooling actually ran lines out of his house into a big underground tank and back in. As the underground tank was cool and stayed at a relatively constant temp, he did not need a fan or rad.
Pelts were never that popular because they require a lot of effort and expense to get it right. Using the cold side to cool your cpu requires that your cpu, socket and mainboard be well insulated or frost and condensation will collect and kill your rig. At the same time, you have to cool the hot side and if you use a heatsink and fan, you are just pumping warm air into your case. Water cooling is really a must. Also, pelts with enough power to do any good require a separate power supply since the effective ones use at least 72 watts of power.
Once T-Birds came on the scene, with the attendant high power consumption and heat output, it became both difficult and expensive to find a pelt with enough power output to cool off the cpu enough to make it worthwhile. At the same time, power requirements for the pelt went up, meaning more expensive and hard to find power supplies.
A pelt does not allow you to do away with fans. Heat still needs to be displaced. Any water cooling system still needs to have a fan or else a huge radiator or a big reservoir. One guy who wanted silent cooling actually ran lines out of his house into a big underground tank and back in. As the underground tank was cool and stayed at a relatively constant temp, he did not need a fan or rad.
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Tomuchtime
- Senior Member
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 6:24 am
I wish i started water cooling long ago.
I don't have to tell anyone the problems
with o/c and a crappy HSF . I recently installed a kit from Highspeedpc and it works like a charm so far-I haven't unlocked the amd yet so we'll see what happens then.I got around the issue of starting the machine and pump at the same time for now by putting them both on a dedicated pwr strip but i think some kind of delay may be needed later on.
I guess the only real problem so far is the
guys submerging boards got me thinking.....
I don't have to tell anyone the problems
with o/c and a crappy HSF . I recently installed a kit from Highspeedpc and it works like a charm so far-I haven't unlocked the amd yet so we'll see what happens then.I got around the issue of starting the machine and pump at the same time for now by putting them both on a dedicated pwr strip but i think some kind of delay may be needed later on.
I guess the only real problem so far is the
guys submerging boards got me thinking.....
I still dont see the point of water cooling personally.
My system has a bunch of fans. 3 80mm in, 2 80mm out, a slim 80mm behind the mboard, dual fan enermax, 80mm fan on heatsink, and random fans on chipset and videocard.
Its quiet, cool, and neet.
Greg
My system has a bunch of fans. 3 80mm in, 2 80mm out, a slim 80mm behind the mboard, dual fan enermax, 80mm fan on heatsink, and random fans on chipset and videocard.
Its quiet, cool, and neet.
Greg
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Hmm, I don't know about places in Germany or Europe. I know from my modelleisenbahn that it is more costly to buy things that have to cross the Atlantic. Also, with the exception of HighspeedPC, things sold here are in inch sizes and fittings have American threads -which are different than British or Metric.
Since you are in Deutschland, try to find a supplier that sells Innovatek. They make a very nice waterblock (all their stuff is very nice - in the German technische tradition). Ditto for your pump, Eheim pumps are just about the best and should be cheaper on your side of the pond. I would suggest a 1048 or 1250.
Here in the U.S. I would suggest the following:
Waterblock: http://www.dangerden.com or click on the HighspeedPC link below.
Pump: [url]http://www.petsmart.com,[/url] [url]http://www.aquamart.com,[/url] http://www.reeffanatic.com
Radiator: (86 Chevette heater core) http://www.autozone.com
Tubing and fittings: Get from Dangerden if you order something or go to http://www.mcmaster.com. Buy silicone or Tygon tubing if you can find it - it is much easier to work with. Vinyl tubing is stiff and gets stiffer over time.
Fan: http://www.mpja.com
Coolant: Most watercoolers in the US favor a mix of a product called "Water Wetter" and distilled water.
Water wetter can be bought from http://www.summitracing.com. I don't like water wetter, it is toxic (god help me if I had a leak and killed one of my girlfriend's damn cats) and I have had much better luck with pink non-toxic antifreeze sold for swimming pools, RV or boat drinking water systems.
Fans: I have tried about 6 different fans and fan configurations and conclude that CFM, number of fans, etc makes very little or no difference. IMHO any 120 mm fan will do as long as it has a duct to the rad.
Good Luck
Since you are in Deutschland, try to find a supplier that sells Innovatek. They make a very nice waterblock (all their stuff is very nice - in the German technische tradition). Ditto for your pump, Eheim pumps are just about the best and should be cheaper on your side of the pond. I would suggest a 1048 or 1250.
Here in the U.S. I would suggest the following:
Waterblock: http://www.dangerden.com or click on the HighspeedPC link below.
Pump: [url]http://www.petsmart.com,[/url] [url]http://www.aquamart.com,[/url] http://www.reeffanatic.com
Radiator: (86 Chevette heater core) http://www.autozone.com
Tubing and fittings: Get from Dangerden if you order something or go to http://www.mcmaster.com. Buy silicone or Tygon tubing if you can find it - it is much easier to work with. Vinyl tubing is stiff and gets stiffer over time.
Fan: http://www.mpja.com
Coolant: Most watercoolers in the US favor a mix of a product called "Water Wetter" and distilled water.
Water wetter can be bought from http://www.summitracing.com. I don't like water wetter, it is toxic (god help me if I had a leak and killed one of my girlfriend's damn cats) and I have had much better luck with pink non-toxic antifreeze sold for swimming pools, RV or boat drinking water systems.
Fans: I have tried about 6 different fans and fan configurations and conclude that CFM, number of fans, etc makes very little or no difference. IMHO any 120 mm fan will do as long as it has a duct to the rad.
Good Luck