Is this how our wonderfull government works?

This car is systematic, hyyydromatic...why it's greased lightning!
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Err
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Post by Err »

EvilHorace wrote:They won't be returned to the customers but the dealers will be SOL if something doesn't go through. I've read where local dealers that are doing alot of these figure they'll get burned by a few. If I owned a dealer, I'd have to see the $$ first, not assume that I'll just get it.
I'm guessing that a lot of dealers will get burned. I read a story the other day that the EPA recently adjusted the combined rating on a vehicle that no longer makes it eligible for the program.

Found it: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090728-EPA-Mileage-Changes-Wreck-Some-Cash-for-Clunkers-Deals/
Planning to turn in your clunker for a government voucher? Double check the Environmental Protection Agency's mileage numbers before you leave the house. If your old car was eligible last week, it might not be eligible today.

The Detroit Free Press explains, "A last-minute update of federal fuel economy data caused confusion...among shoppers looking at cash-for-clunkers deals, making some old cars and trucks ineligible just as the program launched" The EPA conducted "a review of data on 30,000 models from the past 25 years in preparation for the clunkers program," and made changes to some mileage ratings that "changed the eligibility of about 100 vehicles. Of those, roughly half had their mileage increased above 18 m.p.g., making them ineligible, while the other half were found less efficient and could now qualify."

If you're sure your clunker qualifies and you're ready to buy, contact local dealers to start the process.

The EPA "gave no reason its ratings were inaccurate or why some went up," according to USA Today. "For the 2008 model year, EPA started revising mileage figures, typically downward, to better reflect real-world driving. For example, a Toyota Prius that had been rated 60 mpg in city driving fell 20% to 48 mpg," but the new round of mileage ratings was apparently unrelated to the change. The Car Allowance Rebate System uses the most current EPA mileage numbers, even for older cars.

The changes, however, threw off some agreements that buyers and dealers had already signed. Jalopnik notes, "New Jersey resident Jeff Chase was considering trading in his 1989 Mazda 929 for a new car and checked the government's FuelEconomy.gov website and it said it met the 18 MPG threshold to be considered a gas-guzzling clunker. He went back later to buy the new car only to discover the numbers had been changed and the combined mileage was now 19 MPG and therefore disqualified from the discount."

Edmunds' Auto Observer reports, "A few examples brought to Edmunds.com's attention by shoppers through its forums are a 1993 Camry station wagon with a V6 engine, a 1988 Toyota 4Runner and a 1992 Saab 900S. Initially each had a combined mileage rating of 18 mpg so they qualified as clunkers, but their ‘refreshed' rating came in at 19 mpg, so they ended up not qualifying."

Auto Observer notes, "This is the second major glitch in the program," coming after the official launch of the program was pushed back by a computer failure. "Government officials said the public site for customers and the site for dealer sign-ups were on the same server, which became overloaded. The site was taken down on Friday night while the two functions supposedly were separated and put on two different servers."

If you're interested in the Cash for Clunkers program, check out our Cash for Clunkers page. If you're ready to buy, contact local dealers. For the latest news on the program, check out Cash for Clunkers news.
I think that if I was a dealer I'd hold off destroying the engine until I felt comfortable I was getting the $4,500.
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Pugsley
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Post by Pugsley »

I love how the EPA can just magicly change a number like this. Oh it was 16mpg but now it gets 19? WTF?

After checking that EPA site its funny to see that my car compares directly with a Toyota Prius. The EPA says the Prius is better, but the real world numbers prove different.

I still love the one Jetta I saw with a sticker that said "50mpg no batteries required"
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EvilHorace
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Post by EvilHorace »

I love how the EPA can just magicly change a number like this. Oh it was 16mpg but now it gets 19? WTF?
On the Volvo I saw get destroyed, it's EPA mileage (via their website http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp, the combined mileage was adjusted downwards by someone so that it'd quality. After all, 16 city, 24 hwy doesn't convert to 18 unless you're always doing city driving. Then below the new adjusted 18 mpg shown is 2 results from actual owners who put that # at 23.5 mpg so go figure.

This program isn't really about fuel economy or polluting vehicles or it'd include much older cars that are doing far worse than those allowed (like perhaps Pugsley's '83 Hurse). It's all about stimulating new car sales, just another business bailout attempt using our tax dollars.
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Executioner
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Post by Executioner »

EvilHorace wrote: This program isn't really about fuel economy or polluting vehicles or it'd include much older cars that are doing far worse than those allowed (like perhaps Pugsley's '83 Hurse). It's all about stimulating new car sales, just another business bailout attempt using our tax dollars.
Agreed! I just checked my 1996 Chevy Corvette and its rated for only 18 which is BS. I'm currently getting 22 and over 30 on the highway. Sound like they don't want people with V8's anymore.
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Post by FlyingPenguin »

Real impact of "Cash for Clunkers" and a message to the President

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Post by normalicy »

Yeah, I have to admit that despite my questions about a lot of the allocation of funds recently, it's hard to deny what this program will do for not only the economy, but moral. It's a shame they couldn't make a stipulation for this program to only support american business. But of course, that opens a whole different can of issues.
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Pugsley
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Post by Pugsley »

you know... that is ALOT of clunkers... most looked like they should be there... whatever...

Now the real question is... how long will they sit there. They all have destroyed engines.. so none of them will move under their own power. At what point will junkyards stop taking these cars due to the fact there is no profit in them. Unless I missed something where the junkyards get money as well for taking the clunkers. Several yards around here won't collect the cars due to not being able to resell the cars engines or transmissions. and as just tonnage for scrap they are not worth the fuel to go pick them up.
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Post by FlyingPenguin »

They are always disposable as scrap if nothing else. I think even if the dealer had to eat the delivery expense to the scrap yard (which I doubt) it would still be worth it for them.

They're moving inventory, and right now that's important. Most people don't realize that most dealers are paying interest on every car in the lot. The longer it stays on the lot, the more it costs the dealer.
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