Greg
What the best video card you can get for 100 dollars?
Cache size doesnt tell the whole story. Yes a 1.2g duron will beat a 1.2g p3. the chips just Run faster, no way around it. Just liek a 1.3g p3 would beat a 1.3g p4. well they are clocked the same and have the same amount of cache...there for they run at the same speed.
Greg
Greg
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FlyingPenguin
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I've tried running a Radeon DDR 64mb Vivo on my rig and despite a lot of tweaking it ran decidedly worse than the Geforce DDR I tried to replace with it.
I've also helped some friends out with a variety of other Radeon cards. Overall I have not been impressed by Radeons.
Most everyone in the industry agrees that the Radeon line has the potential for much better performance than their drivers are allowing right now.
I also don't like the way ATI writes drivers - ATI wants WAYYYY too many background apps running. Fortunately you can disable most of them.
ATI has never been known for their drivers.
I'm not here to sling dirt, I'm just giving my recommendation. I prefer Geforce cards until something better comes along. NVidia's drivers are rock solid and I've been happy with all my Geforce cards so far.
I've also helped some friends out with a variety of other Radeon cards. Overall I have not been impressed by Radeons.
Most everyone in the industry agrees that the Radeon line has the potential for much better performance than their drivers are allowing right now.
I also don't like the way ATI writes drivers - ATI wants WAYYYY too many background apps running. Fortunately you can disable most of them.
ATI has never been known for their drivers.
I'm not here to sling dirt, I'm just giving my recommendation. I prefer Geforce cards until something better comes along. NVidia's drivers are rock solid and I've been happy with all my Geforce cards so far.
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“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
Pearls of Wisdom???
“I'm convinced Radeons like certain hardware configurations and not others. If you're lucky enough to have a configuration they like, they work like a charm.”
So I guess that means all these people who have no problems with their Radeons are simply “lucky”? Can you be any more ludicrous?
“I've tried running a Radeon DDR 64mb Vivo on my rig and despite a lot of tweaking it ran decidedly worse than the Geforce DDR I tried to replace with it.”
Funny, I’ve run them side by side on nearly identical Sonys on separate computers and not only was the VIVO faster than the Geforce DDR but the image quality was so far superior as to be a joke. Maybe you can fill us in on the variety of “tweaks” you attempted? What drivers you used?
“I'm not here to sling dirt, I'm just giving my recommendation”
Nooooooooo not much. All this guy was looking for was a recommendation for a vid card but as soon as somebody mentions a Radeon, the first thing you do is slam them. Then you recommend a card that Jethro proceeds to offer up some ACTUAL facts and numbers for, showing that the Radeon pretty much lays it to waste. Eh? Yet you subsequently declare that they're even!
“Most everyone in the industry agrees that the Radeon line has the potential for much better performance than their drivers are allowing right now”
I guess that’s why Hercules and Gigabyte have signed on for partnerships with ATI to make graphix cards using their Radeon chipsets instead of nvidia. Hmmmmm.
My beef with you is that you have a tendency to come out with these “absolute truth” pronouncements without actually having done any in depth testing of products. You did the same thing back when AGN was up when you pronounced that you couldn’t run 2 different brand Voodoo 2s in an SLI config. When a few of us mentioned that it indeed could be done, using some hacked drivers, that worked very well indeed I might add, you responded with “oh well, I’d never let hacked drivers or beta software in my rig”. Uh OK.
Then we had the “ Don’t buy the Voodoo 3 card, keep your SLI rig” pronouncement when indeed the V3 was faster than SLI and looked better as well. When at that point in time you could have sold whatever card you were using for 2D and both your Voodoo2s and bought a V3 3000 and still had money left over. Then a couple months go by and all of a sudden your singing the praises of V3 like it’s been the best solution all along. Only problem there was the Voodoo2's were worth half as much by then. Hmmmmm……I think I see a pattern here.
Need I mention the fact that you also stated ( straight from the 3dfx support site I might add) that Voodoo 3 and Voodoo 2’s didn’t support multimonitor as well? Well maybe they and you didn’t think so but ultimately I wrote an article for our old friend BIZNIZZY’s site detailing exactly how it could be done with a few interesting workarounds that actually produced a VERY functional and desirable solution.
But be that as it may, we’ll all take your word for it that Radeons are no good unless you get “lucky” with your configuration. Actually some of us put a fair amount of research and testing into products we buy or consider buying and I’m not talking about a one shot deal where we weren’t able to load a driver or had friend or two that had an issue with a certain card.
I really hate when threads disintegrate into this. But when peeps start passing about misinformation, I feel compelled to reply. Feel free to have the last word. I'm outta here.
End of rant.
Jeesh, I hope this Fearfox gets a card he likes in light of all this !!
So I guess that means all these people who have no problems with their Radeons are simply “lucky”? Can you be any more ludicrous?
“I've tried running a Radeon DDR 64mb Vivo on my rig and despite a lot of tweaking it ran decidedly worse than the Geforce DDR I tried to replace with it.”
Funny, I’ve run them side by side on nearly identical Sonys on separate computers and not only was the VIVO faster than the Geforce DDR but the image quality was so far superior as to be a joke. Maybe you can fill us in on the variety of “tweaks” you attempted? What drivers you used?
“I'm not here to sling dirt, I'm just giving my recommendation”
Nooooooooo not much. All this guy was looking for was a recommendation for a vid card but as soon as somebody mentions a Radeon, the first thing you do is slam them. Then you recommend a card that Jethro proceeds to offer up some ACTUAL facts and numbers for, showing that the Radeon pretty much lays it to waste. Eh? Yet you subsequently declare that they're even!
“Most everyone in the industry agrees that the Radeon line has the potential for much better performance than their drivers are allowing right now”
I guess that’s why Hercules and Gigabyte have signed on for partnerships with ATI to make graphix cards using their Radeon chipsets instead of nvidia. Hmmmmm.
My beef with you is that you have a tendency to come out with these “absolute truth” pronouncements without actually having done any in depth testing of products. You did the same thing back when AGN was up when you pronounced that you couldn’t run 2 different brand Voodoo 2s in an SLI config. When a few of us mentioned that it indeed could be done, using some hacked drivers, that worked very well indeed I might add, you responded with “oh well, I’d never let hacked drivers or beta software in my rig”. Uh OK.
Then we had the “ Don’t buy the Voodoo 3 card, keep your SLI rig” pronouncement when indeed the V3 was faster than SLI and looked better as well. When at that point in time you could have sold whatever card you were using for 2D and both your Voodoo2s and bought a V3 3000 and still had money left over. Then a couple months go by and all of a sudden your singing the praises of V3 like it’s been the best solution all along. Only problem there was the Voodoo2's were worth half as much by then. Hmmmmm……I think I see a pattern here.
Need I mention the fact that you also stated ( straight from the 3dfx support site I might add) that Voodoo 3 and Voodoo 2’s didn’t support multimonitor as well? Well maybe they and you didn’t think so but ultimately I wrote an article for our old friend BIZNIZZY’s site detailing exactly how it could be done with a few interesting workarounds that actually produced a VERY functional and desirable solution.
But be that as it may, we’ll all take your word for it that Radeons are no good unless you get “lucky” with your configuration. Actually some of us put a fair amount of research and testing into products we buy or consider buying and I’m not talking about a one shot deal where we weren’t able to load a driver or had friend or two that had an issue with a certain card.
I really hate when threads disintegrate into this. But when peeps start passing about misinformation, I feel compelled to reply. Feel free to have the last word. I'm outta here.
End of rant.
Jeesh, I hope this Fearfox gets a card he likes in light of all this !!
AMD Ph II X4 955 BE 3.2 @ 3.8 GHz | Scythe SCSMZ-2000 | ASRock 880GMH/USB3 | 8 GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 | Radeon HD5670 | Kingston 128GB SSD
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Jethro Bodine
- Genuine Member
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 9:16 am
Vidman:
You must have grabbed the mothballs instead of the crack rocks if you think a Radeon VIVO is any match for a GF1 DDR! ;-)
The whole Radeon driver myth will probably never die. I had two Radeons, used them on a BX board, and a KT133 board, and I never had a problem.
I had a Rage Fury MAXX, which I should have had driver issues with, and the only problem I ever had was some textures in UT flashing.
I had a Rage 128, no problems.
I don't consider myself "lucky", I consider ATIs excellent cards. I'd have a 8500 right now if my wife wouldn't have thrown a "buy this stuff" party before it came out, which forced me to take refuge at Best Buy and pick up a GF3.
I even thought of buying your 7500, just because I like ATIs IQ so much.
You must have grabbed the mothballs instead of the crack rocks if you think a Radeon VIVO is any match for a GF1 DDR! ;-)
The whole Radeon driver myth will probably never die. I had two Radeons, used them on a BX board, and a KT133 board, and I never had a problem.
I had a Rage Fury MAXX, which I should have had driver issues with, and the only problem I ever had was some textures in UT flashing.
I had a Rage 128, no problems.
I don't consider myself "lucky", I consider ATIs excellent cards. I'd have a 8500 right now if my wife wouldn't have thrown a "buy this stuff" party before it came out, which forced me to take refuge at Best Buy and pick up a GF3.
I even thought of buying your 7500, just because I like ATIs IQ so much.
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FlyingPenguin
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VIDMAN, why do you insist on making this an ATI versus NVidia thread?
The guy asked for an opinion. I've given my opinion based ON MY EXPERIENCES. I've had no luck with Radeons. So have others - ask Doc Silly who gave up on his and went for a GF3 Ti-200 like I did and is a WHOLE lot happier now.
I've made no secret of the fact that I prefer NVidia. There's nothing wrong with Radeons, many people love there's, I don't like them. I also don't like ATI and their programmers (and this goes WAY back to the CRAP cards they made before the Radeon).
If you like your Radeon, more power to you. You've expressed your opinion, I've expressed mine, now leave it at that.
I don't like AMD either, and that's just a personal choice as well and because I also always seem to have more problems with AMD systems (drivers, compatibility issues, etc). I'm not anti-AMD, nor am I anti-ATI (although I admit I am strongly biased against ATI as a company for past transgressions). I just have my preference. In the case of CPUs there's no doubt that Intel and Microsoft are in bed together thus there's less compatibility issues.
ATI has a poor relationship with game developers so most games are designed to run on NVidia cards and Radeons are an after thought in their design.
I'll buy whatever works for me for a good price. I was a fond user of 3Dfx cards until the V3. NVidia started making a better card (IMO) after that so I bought a Geforce to replace my V3. Glad I didn't go with a V5 looking back on it now.
If Radeon ever starts impressing me then I'll buy a Radeon. I'd really LIKE to buy a Radeon because 2D image quality IS important to me, and while the GF3 is MUCH better in that department than the older Geforce line, the Radeon is still a bit better (frankly I wish Matrox would make a decent 3D chip because NOTHING - not even Radeons - looks better than a Matrox in 2D).
'nuff said.
The guy asked for an opinion. I've given my opinion based ON MY EXPERIENCES. I've had no luck with Radeons. So have others - ask Doc Silly who gave up on his and went for a GF3 Ti-200 like I did and is a WHOLE lot happier now.
I've made no secret of the fact that I prefer NVidia. There's nothing wrong with Radeons, many people love there's, I don't like them. I also don't like ATI and their programmers (and this goes WAY back to the CRAP cards they made before the Radeon).
If you like your Radeon, more power to you. You've expressed your opinion, I've expressed mine, now leave it at that.
I don't like AMD either, and that's just a personal choice as well and because I also always seem to have more problems with AMD systems (drivers, compatibility issues, etc). I'm not anti-AMD, nor am I anti-ATI (although I admit I am strongly biased against ATI as a company for past transgressions). I just have my preference. In the case of CPUs there's no doubt that Intel and Microsoft are in bed together thus there's less compatibility issues.
ATI has a poor relationship with game developers so most games are designed to run on NVidia cards and Radeons are an after thought in their design.
I'll buy whatever works for me for a good price. I was a fond user of 3Dfx cards until the V3. NVidia started making a better card (IMO) after that so I bought a Geforce to replace my V3. Glad I didn't go with a V5 looking back on it now.
If Radeon ever starts impressing me then I'll buy a Radeon. I'd really LIKE to buy a Radeon because 2D image quality IS important to me, and while the GF3 is MUCH better in that department than the older Geforce line, the Radeon is still a bit better (frankly I wish Matrox would make a decent 3D chip because NOTHING - not even Radeons - looks better than a Matrox in 2D).
'nuff said.
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“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
Vid wasn't making this an ATI vs Nvidea FP, not even close. Just was questioning you on some issues which you avoided and tried to turn it around on him.
Who is the only one here dissing another card, that is you.
You are trying to pass your opinions as fact, where's the proof? Sure many have had troubles with ATI cards but I know many have had troubles with Nvidea cards aslo, past and present. Yes ATI had some troubles before that earned them a bad rep, but they have improved and improved drastically. You are looking at ATi's past, NOT the present. Your one comment explains it all:
Yes he asked for opinions, but opinions are not facts when one tries to make them so.
Because of your bias you were clearly trying to get him to not get ATI. Vid just stated the fax.
It's funny, seems we all usually defend what we have, wether we really are satisfied with it or not. We still try to make it better than it sometimes actually deserves. We're all guilty of this at some point in time.
Not me of course.
And btw, no flaming meant. Just a nice discussion.
Remember those animated ones at the old booard. :lol
Who is the only one here dissing another card, that is you.
You are trying to pass your opinions as fact, where's the proof? Sure many have had troubles with ATI cards but I know many have had troubles with Nvidea cards aslo, past and present. Yes ATI had some troubles before that earned them a bad rep, but they have improved and improved drastically. You are looking at ATi's past, NOT the present. Your one comment explains it all:
although I admit I am strongly biased against ATI as a company for past transgressions
Yes he asked for opinions, but opinions are not facts when one tries to make them so.
Because of your bias you were clearly trying to get him to not get ATI. Vid just stated the fax.It's funny, seems we all usually defend what we have, wether we really are satisfied with it or not. We still try to make it better than it sometimes actually deserves. We're all guilty of this at some point in time.
Not me of course.
And btw, no flaming meant. Just a nice discussion.
Remember those animated ones at the old booard. :lol-
FlyingPenguin
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Well sorry if I came off sounding that way 
I will quote my original reply here which I think was an honest and fair opinion on my part and leave it at that:
I'll slink out of the room now...
I will quote my original reply here which I think was an honest and fair opinion on my part and leave it at that:
If you guys think I got carried away after that, then I apologize, but I don't see anything wrong with the above statement.I don't like Radeon cards. Some people are happy with theirs but I and many others have been disappointed at lack luster driver support from ATI.
I recommend the MSI Geforce2 Titanium for under $100 a http://www.NewEgg.com (do a product search for "Geforce2 PRO").
A MUCH better card would be the Geforce3 Ti-200 (NewEgg has the Chaintech for $140) if you can spare the extra $40.
You also didn't mention what CPU you're running or what your current video card is.
Not much point upgrading to any of these cards if your CPU is the bottleneck.
I'll slink out of the room now...
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“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
It's cool. Just gave my opinion, that's all.
Healthy discussions are good and at least no one here has resorted too low-blow insults as would happen in the past. Along with many colorful metaphors,haha.
We all get defensive of what we have, it's just a natural. Both cards are good and have their strong points and I'm sure their bad points. I can't say about nvidia because I haven't had an nvidia card since the original tnt.
Just gave my opinion, that's all. Healthy discussions are good and at least no one here has resorted too low-blow insults as would happen in the past. Along with many colorful metaphors,haha.
We all get defensive of what we have, it's just a natural. Both cards are good and have their strong points and I'm sure their bad points. I can't say about nvidia because I haven't had an nvidia card since the original tnt.
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FlyingPenguin
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fearfox
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okay i decided to go for 180 dollars on video card but i cant decide which one they both look good difference is one comes with 128mb and the other comes 64mb which is better?
hey does the 128mb ddr ram memory really help on the Gainwards Ti200 Golden Sample or is the Asus V8200-T2 Deluxe 64mb better?
hey does the 128mb ddr ram memory really help on the Gainwards Ti200 Golden Sample or is the Asus V8200-T2 Deluxe 64mb better?
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Jethro Bodine
- Genuine Member
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Jethro Bodine
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FlyingPenguin
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