Lots of hoopla in the gaming news sites lately about what a potential fiasco this game may become.
They have made $85 million so far on the original crowd funding, and the questionable ethics of selling ships that you can't do much with yet, other than walk around them in a virtual hangar, or fly them in a buggy and badly broken combat sim demo module.
Smart thinks they are over reaching. The added news today that the lead producer has left the company is even more ominous.
http://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen- ... r-get-made
The entire post by Derek Smart is rather interesting, if long winded. He spends a lot of time bragging about his own accomplishments in order to, I suppose, make the point that he has some "minor" experience in these things.
Smart is a blow hard by nature, but he does make a lot of valid points. Entire rant here:
http://dereksmart3000ad.tumblr.com/post ... r-citizens
Star Citizen will “never get made” as it’s been pitched, says Derek Smart
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FlyingPenguin
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Star Citizen will “never get made” as it’s been pitched, says Derek Smart
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“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
Not surprising - I saw where they were selling a fancy cruise liner type ship for something crazy like $300 - now that ED is up and running, people gonna wonder where did all that money going. Probably all safe in Mt. Gox 
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FlyingPenguin
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I think they're going to fall flat on their faces. They're selling ships that no one can do anything with yet. It's stupid, although the real stupid people are the ones actually giving them money for useless ships.
They've bitten off more than they can chew. There's a whole First person Shooter module that's being added now so you can go fight with ground troops, or on ship raids. It's crazy.
Elite Dangerous is a HUGE game, and it's impressive they've managed to pretty much deliver what they promised, but Star Citizen is supposed to be 100 times larger in scope and complexity, and they're trying to outsource a lot of it.
CIG Refutes Star Citizen Concerns
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/163149/cig-r ... n-concerns
They've bitten off more than they can chew. There's a whole First person Shooter module that's being added now so you can go fight with ground troops, or on ship raids. It's crazy.
Elite Dangerous is a HUGE game, and it's impressive they've managed to pretty much deliver what they promised, but Star Citizen is supposed to be 100 times larger in scope and complexity, and they're trying to outsource a lot of it.
CIG Refutes Star Citizen Concerns
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/163149/cig-r ... n-concerns
A lengthy post on the RSI Community Forums from Ben Lesnick of Cloud Imperium Games' offers "some thoughts on concerns" that have been raised about Star Citizen (thanks PC Invasion), saying this is "all in the spirit of improving communication" about their upcoming space game (even though one of the answers in the post says it's "absolutely incorrect" that they have not been communicating with the community). Questions about the state of the project have intensified amid news of a delay to the FPS module, the departure of the game's executive producer, and the ongoing crowdfunding and virual item sales that continually add to the game's budget. The post takes on these issues and more, deeming almost every concern expressed about the project to be inaccurate. Ben does grant that they have not been communicating enough about promised features on their website, but dismisses most other concerns...{more}
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“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
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EnglishRobbie
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I tend to agree with Smart and unfortunately I really think Roberts has tried too hard to create the perfect game.
It's very disappointing, I was so excited to hear of the idea on kickstarter. Being a huge fan of Wing Commander and Planeteer I jumped on the kickstarter at a level that I won't say, even when I didn't have a gaming PC to play the product on. I figured I had over 2 years to worry about the hardware.
Anyway, I bought myself a decent system Q3/4 last year and I'm realizing this project will probably not come close to the idea of it back in 2012, if anything comes of it at all. Oh well, on the bright side at least it got me to purchase a system that can play PC games again!!
On to elite dangerous
Edit: I never bought any of the ridiculous ships that they flaunted. I'm invested solely in the kickstarter.
It's very disappointing, I was so excited to hear of the idea on kickstarter. Being a huge fan of Wing Commander and Planeteer I jumped on the kickstarter at a level that I won't say, even when I didn't have a gaming PC to play the product on. I figured I had over 2 years to worry about the hardware.
Anyway, I bought myself a decent system Q3/4 last year and I'm realizing this project will probably not come close to the idea of it back in 2012, if anything comes of it at all. Oh well, on the bright side at least it got me to purchase a system that can play PC games again!!
On to elite dangerous
Edit: I never bought any of the ridiculous ships that they flaunted. I'm invested solely in the kickstarter.
ED is interesting because they built the framework, and the players started to do a lot of social experimentation - "wonder if we can take over this system?" "What happens if we blockade this station" - the devs had a lot of loose world rules and it seems like they are adapting those to the way people are playing.
Star citizen does look like it has some problems. I read the guy's blog, and it was interesting, but SC doesn't appear to have the framework in place to build on like ED had for many beta, but seems like they are writing new modules for pvp, etc.
Star citizen does look like it has some problems. I read the guy's blog, and it was interesting, but SC doesn't appear to have the framework in place to build on like ED had for many beta, but seems like they are writing new modules for pvp, etc.
<a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=123" target="_blank" >Heatware</a>
Some people are getting refunds
http://www.polygon.com/2015/8/20/918006 ... money-back
A number of frustrated Star Citizen backers are asking publisher Cloud Imperium Games for their money back. And although the company is making no guarantees or public announcements, Polygon has learned that refunds are being made.
Much of the consumer dissatisfaction stems from how little of the promised game has so far been released, and how often various modules have been delayed.
Star Citizen's first crowd-funding campaign took place on Kickstarter in the fall of 2012, followed by a roiling campaign via the company's own website. The space-combat simulation has so far raised more than $87 million. The scale of the project has grown with each stretch goal.
Back in 2012, Cloud Imperium said that a space dog-fighting demo would be available by the end of 2013, with a full beta of the game world's entire universe available by the end of 2014.
In the event, the dog-fighting game known as Arena Commander only appeared in late 2014, following on from a hangar mode earlier in the year. Other elements of the game, including a first-person shooting module, planetside landing, social hub, single-player campaign, multi-crew module and final Persistent Universe have yet to appear. Some players are angry.
In July, an internal survey posted on the Star Citizen message boards revealed as many as 25 percent of the game's backers expressing an interest in a process for getting their money back. The survey received 1,173 responses.
Star Citizen's consumer agreement terms do not allow much official leeway for refunds. Players back the game at various financial levels, but all have been given access to the game's earliest modules.
In an interview with Polygon this week, Cloud Imperium founder Chris Roberts said that refunds are being given out. "We don't publicize it, but when people reach out to us and talk to us in a rational manner, in most cases we've refunded them," he said. "We don't want people to be part of the project if they're not happy."
""We don't want to keep people around. We don't want to fight with them.""
He stressed that the company is under no legal obligation to offer refunds. "We don't have to do that. The terms of the agreement mean we don't. We're developing [the game], so we can't be in a position where we automatically have to refund people's money. That's how we pay salaries. If we can't spend the money we get we can't make the game. We don't want people to get the impression that it is automatic because it is completely discretionary on our part."
A spokesperson for Cloud Imperium said that a total of 1,269 refunds have so far been given out, with 93 refunds since the beginning of July. Roberts declined to say what percentage of refund applications are granted.
"If there are cases where people are really upset, or facing personal hardships, on a case by case basis we take a look and we refund," he said. "We don't want to keep people around. We don't want to fight with them."
Various promised release dates for Star Citizen modules have slipped. In January 2015, Roberts laid out a schedule in which the first-person shooter, known as Star Marine, would arrive by the spring, followed by the social and multicrew modules in the summer and the single player campaign (Squadron 42) in the fall.
At Gamescom earlier this month, Roberts showed demos of the various modules along with a new timeline, with the social module coming in days ahead, Star Marine arriving in "a few weeks" followed by an updated Arena Commander (including multi-crew) scheduled before the end of the year. There is no firm date on Squadron 42, although that will likely be announced at a CitizenCon event in England which takes place on Oct. 10. The Persistent Universe is promised some time in 2016.
Roberts pointed out that this is an ambitious game and that many games suffer from delays. He said that his team of 200 people spread across four countries are working through significant technical challenges.
The lengthy Gamescom demo was watched by an enthusiastic crowd. Most Star Citizen community forums retain an air of optimism, excitement and support. But as time wears on, and if further delays are announced, more skepticism is likely to take hold.
Paul Shelley (aka Bzerker01) is a Twitch streamer who follows Star Citizen closely and is well known among the game's loyal fanbase. "The community is cautiously optimistic," he said. "They want to see progress. There are many who are waiting for more content before they continue to support it either financially or through word of mouth."
Ryan Allen, a web developer from California, backed Star Citizen in early 2013 and went on to spend a total of $930 on various in-game spaceships, over a period of about 18 months. He told Polygon that he applied for a full refund on July 13, 2015, and was granted the full amount on July 31.
"When I backed the game, I was excited that Chris was making a new Wing Commander-type game," he told Polygon. "It was like, 'take my money.'" In 2014 Allen played the hangar mode and Arena Commander for "around 30 hours."
But Allen said that by early 2015 he had grown disillusioned with the game. "I totally believed in it, but after so much delay, I just wanted my money back."
m50_cover
In July, Allen contacted Cloud Imperium's customer support service via an email that outlined his grievances. "I felt they had been dishonest and that the game was going downhill," he said. After a series of emails, he was denied a refund. The customer service rep said his pledges were too old to be refunded. Official refunds are only available to people who buy the game and are dissatisfied within 14-days.
Allen was a vocal critic of the game on Star Citizen's forums and on its sub-Reddit. He says he's clashed with other backers in online arguments. He also contacted the Federal Trade Commission and the Better Business Bureau to make a complaint. A few days later he received a direct email from Cloud Imperium, promising to take care of his refund application. It was sorted out in a matter of days.
"It was like night and day," said Allen. "I don't know why they changed their minds and I'm not going to question it. After that email, they gave me the best customer service experience I've ever had in gaming. They really went 110 percent to get me my money back."
According to Roberts, unhappy backers like Allen are the exception. "In general, our refund numbers are very, very low compared to the rest of the industry," he said. "It's significantly lower than what you get with e-transactions on most games. The issue is, yes, there are some big, vocal people, but they're definitely a minority."
Polygon will publish a full feature on the current status and the future of Star Citizen in the days ahead.
Note: Post-publication, we added the size of the refund survey group and clarified that its question was about instigating a refund process.
A number of frustrated Star Citizen backers are asking publisher Cloud Imperium Games for their money back. And although the company is making no guarantees or public announcements, Polygon has learned that refunds are being made.
Much of the consumer dissatisfaction stems from how little of the promised game has so far been released, and how often various modules have been delayed.
Star Citizen's first crowd-funding campaign took place on Kickstarter in the fall of 2012, followed by a roiling campaign via the company's own website. The space-combat simulation has so far raised more than $87 million. The scale of the project has grown with each stretch goal.
Back in 2012, Cloud Imperium said that a space dog-fighting demo would be available by the end of 2013, with a full beta of the game world's entire universe available by the end of 2014.
In the event, the dog-fighting game known as Arena Commander only appeared in late 2014, following on from a hangar mode earlier in the year. Other elements of the game, including a first-person shooting module, planetside landing, social hub, single-player campaign, multi-crew module and final Persistent Universe have yet to appear. Some players are angry.
In July, an internal survey posted on the Star Citizen message boards revealed as many as 25 percent of the game's backers expressing an interest in a process for getting their money back. The survey received 1,173 responses.
Star Citizen's consumer agreement terms do not allow much official leeway for refunds. Players back the game at various financial levels, but all have been given access to the game's earliest modules.
In an interview with Polygon this week, Cloud Imperium founder Chris Roberts said that refunds are being given out. "We don't publicize it, but when people reach out to us and talk to us in a rational manner, in most cases we've refunded them," he said. "We don't want people to be part of the project if they're not happy."
""We don't want to keep people around. We don't want to fight with them.""
He stressed that the company is under no legal obligation to offer refunds. "We don't have to do that. The terms of the agreement mean we don't. We're developing [the game], so we can't be in a position where we automatically have to refund people's money. That's how we pay salaries. If we can't spend the money we get we can't make the game. We don't want people to get the impression that it is automatic because it is completely discretionary on our part."
A spokesperson for Cloud Imperium said that a total of 1,269 refunds have so far been given out, with 93 refunds since the beginning of July. Roberts declined to say what percentage of refund applications are granted.
"If there are cases where people are really upset, or facing personal hardships, on a case by case basis we take a look and we refund," he said. "We don't want to keep people around. We don't want to fight with them."
Various promised release dates for Star Citizen modules have slipped. In January 2015, Roberts laid out a schedule in which the first-person shooter, known as Star Marine, would arrive by the spring, followed by the social and multicrew modules in the summer and the single player campaign (Squadron 42) in the fall.
At Gamescom earlier this month, Roberts showed demos of the various modules along with a new timeline, with the social module coming in days ahead, Star Marine arriving in "a few weeks" followed by an updated Arena Commander (including multi-crew) scheduled before the end of the year. There is no firm date on Squadron 42, although that will likely be announced at a CitizenCon event in England which takes place on Oct. 10. The Persistent Universe is promised some time in 2016.
Roberts pointed out that this is an ambitious game and that many games suffer from delays. He said that his team of 200 people spread across four countries are working through significant technical challenges.
The lengthy Gamescom demo was watched by an enthusiastic crowd. Most Star Citizen community forums retain an air of optimism, excitement and support. But as time wears on, and if further delays are announced, more skepticism is likely to take hold.
Paul Shelley (aka Bzerker01) is a Twitch streamer who follows Star Citizen closely and is well known among the game's loyal fanbase. "The community is cautiously optimistic," he said. "They want to see progress. There are many who are waiting for more content before they continue to support it either financially or through word of mouth."
Ryan Allen, a web developer from California, backed Star Citizen in early 2013 and went on to spend a total of $930 on various in-game spaceships, over a period of about 18 months. He told Polygon that he applied for a full refund on July 13, 2015, and was granted the full amount on July 31.
"When I backed the game, I was excited that Chris was making a new Wing Commander-type game," he told Polygon. "It was like, 'take my money.'" In 2014 Allen played the hangar mode and Arena Commander for "around 30 hours."
But Allen said that by early 2015 he had grown disillusioned with the game. "I totally believed in it, but after so much delay, I just wanted my money back."
m50_cover
In July, Allen contacted Cloud Imperium's customer support service via an email that outlined his grievances. "I felt they had been dishonest and that the game was going downhill," he said. After a series of emails, he was denied a refund. The customer service rep said his pledges were too old to be refunded. Official refunds are only available to people who buy the game and are dissatisfied within 14-days.
Allen was a vocal critic of the game on Star Citizen's forums and on its sub-Reddit. He says he's clashed with other backers in online arguments. He also contacted the Federal Trade Commission and the Better Business Bureau to make a complaint. A few days later he received a direct email from Cloud Imperium, promising to take care of his refund application. It was sorted out in a matter of days.
"It was like night and day," said Allen. "I don't know why they changed their minds and I'm not going to question it. After that email, they gave me the best customer service experience I've ever had in gaming. They really went 110 percent to get me my money back."
According to Roberts, unhappy backers like Allen are the exception. "In general, our refund numbers are very, very low compared to the rest of the industry," he said. "It's significantly lower than what you get with e-transactions on most games. The issue is, yes, there are some big, vocal people, but they're definitely a minority."
Polygon will publish a full feature on the current status and the future of Star Citizen in the days ahead.
Note: Post-publication, we added the size of the refund survey group and clarified that its question was about instigating a refund process.
<a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=123" target="_blank" >Heatware</a>
I honestly would like to see them actually complete this game and it be functional but it also looks like they've bitten off more than they could chew. I have very little sympathy though for people, like that Allen guy, who have dumped over $900 into the game to buy ships NOW, despite the damn game not even being completed. That's just mind boggling.
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I hope they get something playable completed. Not a backer, but it does seem that there is a lack of command/control.
I backed http://camelotunchained.com/v2/ to the level of two accounts in the original Kickstarter, and it is in alpha. I get basically weekly updates, and notices of lots of different tests I can participate in (I'm waiting for a while).
I backed http://camelotunchained.com/v2/ to the level of two accounts in the original Kickstarter, and it is in alpha. I get basically weekly updates, and notices of lots of different tests I can participate in (I'm waiting for a while).
<a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=123" target="_blank" >Heatware</a>
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FlyingPenguin
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Long article that gets you up to speed:
What the hell is going on with Star Citizen?
http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/8/ ... ar-citizen
What the hell is going on with Star Citizen?
http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/8/ ... ar-citizen
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“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
All I think of is:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tIn1_9YvGds" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tIn1_9YvGds" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
[align=center]A self-aware artificial intelligence would suffer from a divide by zero error if it were programmed to be Amish[/align]
The controversy goes up a couple of notches
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... he-Company
There are 3 or 4 relevant links embedded in this story.
lots here as well: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/ ... oes-Update
There are 3 or 4 relevant links embedded in this story.
lots here as well: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/ ... oes-Update
<a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=123" target="_blank" >Heatware</a>
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FlyingPenguin
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And counter punch:
CIG Demands Retraction. Threatens lawsuit
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/165677/cig-d ... ns-lawsuit
CIG Demands Retraction. Threatens lawsuit
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/165677/cig-d ... ns-lawsuit
---
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
“The Government of Spain will not applaud those who set the world on fire just because they show up with a bucket.” - Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez
but hey, you can get ALL the ships for a mere $15,000. Wowza!
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pled ... st-Digital
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pled ... st-Digital
<a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=123" target="_blank" >Heatware</a>