Trump didn't pay income tax for 10 of 15 years before 2016 election: NYT

[Err]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ars-report

I think we all suspected that he didn't pay his taxes. I don't know enough about tax law to file my own taxes but I understand how you write off losses. I suspect that's what his accountants have done. However, in true Trump fashion as not to crack his fragile ego, he won't own up to it. All he would have to say is that because of the way tax law is written, there are plenty of loopholes that can be used by businesses to essentially pay no tax. 2020 is going to be the lowest income for the Federal Government is years as businesses write off their losses.

[Losbot]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ars-report
2020 is going to be the lowest income for the Federal Government is years as businesses write off their losses.

That plus the fact that many businesses went under so there's a lot of payroll tax as well that's lost.

[FlyingPenguin]

I've read the whole NYTimes article and it's worth reading (doesn't seem to have a paywall or else you get 4 articles a month for free I think). Well written article. Easy to understand: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... taxes.html

I don't think this will make much of a difference to the election, but it sure makes him look like the pretend great businessman that most NY business people already knew he was. Also makes it clear there are definitely conflicts of interest with him being President.

Most of what he did is perfectly legal and a common practice among real estate developers, he's just doing it to an incredible extreme, and it could be argued that he's breaking some rules because it looks like some of the loses and expenses he's claiming aren't legit. Like it looks like he's paying his children consultant fees (large ones) to avoid gift taxes. That would be legit if his Kids weren't employees of the companies and were just outside contractors, but what he did is a bozo no no.

He's using loses of some of his (500+) LLCs to offset taxes on income on the lucrative ones. My inlaws were commercial warehouse real estate developers, and they did something like this, just not on this massive a scale. Perfectly legit, as long as you aren't specifically creating those businesses as losers and hiding any real income from them.

Trouble is he filed for a $72 million refund a decade ago, which he got, based on previous years losses. That was a contingent refund, which could be amended based on his audit. And now we know that audit has been going on for ten years because he's done legal maneuvering to stall it, and now he's president so it's probably on hold until he's a citizen again.

He may have to pay back that refund plus interest and penalties if the audit doesn't go well.

On top of that he's personally deeply in debt. He's been using his own money and credit to keep his country clubs a float (they all lose money except Maro Lago). Only other business that makes money on paper is Trump Tower, and a 5% pownership of another realestate company that owns a Trump branded building in California. Some of his country clubs have hundreds of millions of dollars in outstanding loans - guaranteed by him personally - that they have only been paying interest and not principle on. Some of those loans are due in 2022 and 2023.

Ironically he's taken advantage of a big tax credit from the Obama administration created to help businesses during the recession. What he's basically doing is kicking all his debts and tax liabilities down the road. Sooner or later he has to pay the piper, and I guess his plan is that by then something will come along to make enough to cover it all. Or he may stall it long enough to die before anything is resolved. Even if he, or his estate, goes bankrupt, his big money making businesses would probably survive, because most of their loans are guaranteed by Trump personally. So basically they could default on the loans, and he is the one that's on the line for it, not the business, if I'm understanding this right. That's where you start getting knee deep in tax law, and tax law changes every year.

[FlyingPenguin]

NYT must have had these documents for quite some time because this is not a slap-dash article. It's very well written, with a couple of side articles.

One is a summary of the main points for people who don't want to read the longer one:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/us/t ... aways.html

And the other is a really polished interactive timeline graph showing the profits and losses for his individual businesses over eighteen years: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... eline.html

This is one screenshot from that graph, which is rather amazing:

[Executioner]

It would be nice to move to a flat tax or a consumption tax which I prefer instead. You want that $50m boat, then you pay tax on it. Tax everything except for food of any kind including restaurants.

[Key Keeper]

How about we see ole Bidens tax info?

[Err]

How about we see ole Bidens tax info?

Here you go: https://joebiden.com/financial-disclosure/#

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/politics ... index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

[Key Keeper]

Interesting. Didn't know he was so wealthy. Saying hes middle of the road income wise is scary. Now if he could just keep a coherent debate, he may sway some conservatives. Doubtful though.

[Err]

He made a lot of money the past few years from books and speaking. He's also 77 so if he invested well, it makes sense he's so rich.

I doubt tonight's debates will sway anyone. I think everybody's already made up their minds. We could hold the election now and the results would be the same as November 3rd. I just want everyone to vote so there's no contested results.

[Losbot]

He made a lot of money the past few years from books and speaking. He's also 77 so if he invested well, it makes sense he's so rich.

I doubt tonight's debates will sway anyone. I think everybody's already made up their minds. We could hold the election now and the results would be the same as November 3rd. I just want everyone to vote so there's no contested results.

I believe that many do change their minds but you get that on both sides. It's pretty safe to say that definitely when you're in those last few weeks, people's minds are definitely made up.

[Err]

He made a lot of money the past few years from books and speaking. He's also 77 so if he invested well, it makes sense he's so rich.

I doubt tonight's debates will sway anyone. I think everybody's already made up their minds. We could hold the election now and the results would be the same as November 3rd. I just want everyone to vote so there's no contested results.

I believe that many do change their minds but you get that on both sides. It's pretty safe to say that definitely when you're in those last few weeks, people's minds are definitely made up.

I watched the debates and now I have a headache. I just wanted everyone to shut up. One of my bugbears is people talking over one another. If it's a radio program, I turn it off. If it's a meeting, I tune out.

I think they both did poorly.

[FlyingPenguin]

That debate was the last 4 years of Trump press conferences compressed into 90 minutes. I have a headache too. Yeah, people talking over each other is one of my pet peeves as well.

I wish Biden had not given in to the baiting early on and resisted the urge to talk over Trump in the beginning, but I'm not sure if I could have resisted it either. He finally just started tuning him out. I don't know how.

I think they need to mute the microphone of the person not talking, during the next debate. Trump and Biden would never agree to it, so I would just f'ing do it if I was the director and the hell with it. He'd probably be considered a hero.

I agree with the pundits afterwards who basically said that nothing was discussed that gave anyone in this country any real detail on what each candidate's plan was for their presidency. Biden tried a little, but it just degenerated into a shouting match.

[Executioner]

Watched this one and probably won't watch any more. All the debates even from the past all to the same - talk over each other. It was nice not to have the audience clapping.

[FlyingPenguin]

Yeah, I thought the audience would be the problem at first. I don't think they should have audiences at all, like the old days.

I don't think this was like anything in the past. It definitely reached a new level.

[Executioner]

Biden even called Trump a clown - and you can tell it slipped out and he tried to take it back.