Senator calls for 50-mpg mandate for Detroit to receive aid

Err · Post by **Err** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:42 pm

"Thick and fast." That's the phrase that describes the opinions, pleas, advice, denunciations, and WTF? going on around the U.S. auto industry right now. Enter Congress, which is trying to figure out how to give Detroit automakers the $25 billion they were promised a few months ago. Congressmen are sounding off almost daily on what kinds of stipulations they want to attach to the loan/bailout/whatever you want to call it -- and that's just the ones who would vote for it at all.

Next up is Senator Bill Nelson, a Florida democrat, who wants U.S. automakers to achieve a fleet average of 50 mpg by 2020. Right now, the CAFE target is 35 mpg by 2020 -- a goal agreed upon only after a huge amount of jockeying in and out of Congress. Nelson asked, "Why should we be pouring taxpayer money into an automobile industry that has continued to resist higher miles per gallon, which has led us in part to the problems we're in?"

While that might sound like a great idea to some, it would cost a terrific sum of money to achieve. The Detroit Three need the money they're asking for just to get to Q2 of 2009, not to create a range of cars that would represent magnificent advances -- based on where we are right now -- in 11 years. There's a good chance nothing will be decided until the president-elect takes office, and by then, who knows what other requests Congress will have.

I want whatever the senator is smoking.

Executioner · Post by **Executioner** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:46 pm

They need to fail, and the blame falls on their management. Hourly workers are making $31/hr. The average management rate is $73/hr. Throw in benefits and there you have it. They should just go chapter 11 and restructure, but I'm sure the labor union had the democrats in their back pocket, including Nancy Polosi.

If they give them this money, they are still going broke by Q2 2009 so what is the point of giving them money. It will take them years to achieve 50mpg.

smb · Post by **smb** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:10 pm

hourly wages are not the problem, union is the problem. I think 35 is more realistic though, and they can achieve that within the next 5 years.

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:39 pm

I dont know why we even care about gas. d'OhBama said he will rid us of gas usage in 10 years.

I think that is amazing. My cars will magically work on love and and flower power.

So who cares what the gas mileage will be when we dont even need gas any more.

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:57 am

I have a car thats not a hybrid and gets 50mpg.. it called small diesel. works great over in Europe.

Err · Post by **Err** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:38 am

Pugsley wrote:I have a car thats not a hybrid and gets 50mpg.. it called small diesel. works great over in Europe.

I would like to see more diesels also but the EPA insists on applying the same emissions standards that they use for gasoline. If we're serious about reducing our oil usage, we need to relax these restrictions (perhaps use what is used in Europe?) and re-evaluate the safety standards on cars so we can produce lighter cars.

Ideally, better fuel economy could be achieved using a design similar to the Volt where you could plug in the car overnight and drive 40 miles before a diesel generator kicks in. Also, make the car so your not charging $40K for it like Chevy plans to for the Volt.

renovation · Post by **renovation** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:31 am

i have a lot of family and friends that work for the big 3. and the storys i have heard of them screwing off is bulshit. and to make $35 hour plus the bennys and special perks . and they feel they are under payed and over worked . i would never hire a layed off auto worker for my company. they sue me for getting my money worth. every auto worker i have ever hired only lasted 1 day .most only till lunch and quit .saying you can keep your job as a construction worker . even at 12- 18 dollars a hour i have never worked that hard in the plant and won't . were else do you work and if your layed off get 95 % of your pay for 2 years or better and you can sit on your ass!

if the loss of the american auto industry was no so long reaching into the american population i say let them close.but there are so many non auto plant job workers going to loose. im saying bail them out but make the unions pay a price for there years of greed to.

beef · Post by **beef** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:24 pm

If we bail out auto companies, who is next? Circuit city? I think the if we start getting into any more bailouts, were going to be in a lot more trouble then what were already in.

I also feel that we have outgrown a time when unions were necessary. There once was a time, before groups such as OSHA, were unions were necessary to protect the health and safety of employees. But that time has long gone.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:23 pm

I agree about unions. Having been a union stagehand in the 80s I can tell you the union just stifles a company. There is more than enough regulatory oversite now that the original purpose for unions no longer exists. They have now become a bloated bureaucracy that just fights for it's own existence and for political clout.

The unions are killing the airlines too.

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:04 pm

I Hate unions too. But if it were possible to vote certain people out of the plant (guy making it hard for everybody else, lazy, too stupid to do the job) by having a meeting then i would be for it. But as they are now the unions are nothing more then domesticated terrorist.

EvilHorace · Post by **EvilHorace** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:29 pm

But if it were possible to vote certain people out of the plant (guy making it hard for everybody else, lazy, too stupid to do the job) by having a meeting then i would be for it

The fact is, people like that exist in every walk of life, every business has them. Unions actually protect those people whereas elsewhere, a manager can just fire them w/o needing to be accountable.

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:09 pm

EvilHorace wrote:The fact is, people like that exist in every walk of life, every business has them. Unions actually protect those people whereas elsewhere, a manager can just fire them w/o needing to be accountable.

Exactly. And that's why unions suck ass. But if you had a "voted off the island" thing then people would not screw up or be dicks knowing the union will protect them.

I think the union should protect people from the company's, but at the same time not protect them from fellow workers. this way if its a good person who does their job and the compay trys to can them then the union does its job.. but if its some asshole that is lazy or stupid and the company goes after them and the SHOP agrees then out they go.

renovation · Post by **renovation** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:20 pm

i like to see a show of pca members hands as to who has worked in a auto plant (big 3 plant for the auto companys ) i have and was amazed at the crap i seen.(waste of time or lack of work performed )
one night there was a spill of a 55 gallon drum of glue .they had 8-10 of us hourly workers stay over to clean it up . 2 people were really doing the clean up.( mopping up the mess ) the rest of us were there incase they need the help. plus 2 managers all were getting OT .we stayed 3 hours got 4 hours of time and half pay plus letters in are perm.records for are great job of staying over to clean up the mess. hell they were paying us at the time like $22.oo plus ot (it was back in 1979 ) but that was super great pay then. other then the plant .you never get that per hour.
i only worked at GM for 3 months and was layed off do to weak auto sales. didn't make my 90 days but was advanced to 90 incase they were to need to call back folk . after i waqs off a year i loss all the time i had in . never got called back and never applyed again .didn't want to turn into what i seen there.
there were woman working at the plant 40 plus hours a week. and doing tricks at lunch. in the box cars on the property . its a whole diffrent world in the auto plants .and i didn't like what i seen .so i never returned even do the money was fantastic.

beef · Post by **beef** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:17 pm

renovation wrote: there were woman working at the plant 40 plus hours a week. and doing tricks at lunch. in the box cars on the property . its a whole diffrent world in the auto plants .and i didn't like what i seen .so i never returned even do the money was fantastic.

Tricks you say? :lol They were probably just trying to boost employee moral.

cratch

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:36 pm

I heard about some of the unions at McCormick place. If it ain't got wheels on it Union has to move it. so a crate that can easly be carried in by 2 people (owners of boot would have done it them selves) didn't have wheels on it, union stewerd sees this and tells them to stop, bla bla bla you cant move it we have to. Guy is sleeping on forklift, stewerd ask for money to "wake him up" or wait till he wakes up. Well they told the stewerd to

off and carried it in, then they had to plug in a lamp and computer, gotta have a union electrician do it. long story short they didnt have power and the booth looked like crap and stuff got stolen over night... wonder who stole and broke part of the booth. Never again will that company go to McCormick place. Alot of people i know that do that stuff complain about the unions there.