Swift boat vets with selective memory

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:06 pm

WASHINGTON - Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284/

TruckStuff · Post by **TruckStuff** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:10 pm

Try as you might, you still aren't going to sell the American public on John Kerry being not-weak on terrorism with this stuff. War record aside, he has shown with almost every defense spending vote in his Senate career that our nation's defenses will suffer under a Kerry/Edwards administration.

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:54 pm

I am not trying to convince anybody of anything other than to make the point that this Swift Boat Veterans for Truth thing is a bunch of crap.

I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to change your mind about Kerry. You made yours up a long time ago....

Even so, you say:

he has shown with almost every defense spending vote in his Senate career

Care to back that up with some facts? Some particular bills?

sethpa · Post by **sethpa** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:59 pm

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 2851.shtml

I only checked a couple of these out in the Congressional record, so far they are correct...

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:42 pm

Urban Legends Page and Kerry's votes to "kill" weapons systems here

But we will just go around in circles on this. As a Senator, Kerry voted to please his constituents.
That means a different voting record on defense than somebody elected from another state.

As I have said in other posts, I am not particularly bothered by this hysteria about Kerry eviscerating the defense budget. I don't think he wants to, and feel fairly secure in the knowledge that he couldn't even if he did want to. The Defense department and the military have plenty of allies in Congress even when there is a president in power who may not share their enthusiasms.

Actually, of all the Presidents since World War II who dealt with this issue, Eisenhower was ironically very much against heavy defense spending. But the military (Air Force in particular) still got much of what they wanted in spite of him.

I have no idea what our needs are in order to fight terrorism. We seem to have a fair amount of military hardware. I think we have 11-13 aircraft carriers. At least nine are Nimitz class nuclear carriers, any one of which is without a match in any navy on the planet.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:39 am

http://soldcentralfl.com/bob/swiftboat_spoof.mp3

TruckStuff · Post by **TruckStuff** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:51 pm

Originally posted by FlyingPenguin
http://soldcentralfl.com/bob/swiftboat_spoof.mp3

Linky no worky??

TruckStuff · Post by **TruckStuff** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:53 pm

Originally posted by Lmandrake
Urban Legends Page and Kerry's votes to "kill" weapons systems here

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. So because he voted against all of these weapons systems along with some other things he some how didn't vote down these weapons systems?? How the hell do you figure that? He either did or he didn't. Of course this is the cheif fence-rider we are talking about here....

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:19 pm

The point is that all those votes listed by the RNC as separate votes were actually two or three votes for two or three Department of Defense appropriations bills for one year.

Keep in mind that every department of the gov't has to have money appropriated to it for every fiscal year. There are usually many versions of these approps bills that come up for floor votes and some pas and some don't until enough congressmen get the goodies they want in one so it will pass. They are always chock full of pork and other BS for somebody's home district and so anybody can vote against one because there is something they don't like in it.

Saying that somebody voted to "kill" the F-15 because they voted against a Department of Defense approps bill for one fiscal year is like saying that somebody voted to "kill" the interstate highway system because they voted against a Department of Transportation approps bill for one year.

sometimes approps bills dont pass until the fiscal year they are for is almost over...

You believe that Kerry is soft on defense. That's not an unreasonable view, but not because of three no votes on approps bills. And that is what the RNC would have you believe...

xsiled · Post by **xsiled** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:32 am

the trick is kerry doesnt take a stand on anything.

he finds the best possible way to find standing with the people he wants to impress.
so if its against defense its against defense if its against blah hes against blah.

he flip flops to make people happy, he has no stand he has no ideals.

Red Dawn · Post by **Red Dawn** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:50 am

Originally posted by xsiled
the trick is kerry doesnt take a stand on anything.

he finds the best possible way to find standing with the people he wants to impress.
so if its against defense its against defense if its against blah hes against blah.

he flip flops to make people happy, he has no stand he has no ideals.

Even if that were true he still seems to be a better choice than the Dub.

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:08 am

he finds the best possible way to find standing with the people he wants to impress.
so if its against defense its against defense if its against blah hes against blah.[quote]

Find me any politician who doesn't. They all do.

Perhaps your belief that he is worse than others is based on reading neocon propaganda like this:

http://www.gop.com/news/read.aspx?ID=3968

I prefer to think on my own...

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:24 am

Linky no worky??

Bah, my web server went down this weekend.

Here:

http://iselldomainnames.com/bob/swiftboat_spoof.mp3

Post by **sbp** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:55 am

Oh I love it. After months of leftwing 527 organization like MoveOn.Org running deplorable attack ads and not coordinating {wink, nod} with the Kerry campaign, the Dems have now cried foul. Hey that ain't fair, only libs are supposed to use these tax-exempt groups to get around campaign finance reform.

The FEC has said it won't be cracking down on such groups until the next election cycle, so suck it up libs.

:

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:27 pm

Tis true, the right wing has never cried "foul" about any of the leftie ads or about Michael Moore's movie.