PCA Forums

Have you decided on your upgrade path yet fp
I know i reccommended amd to you a few weeks ago but maybe you should now read this it brings to light a few questions i have
http://www.emulators.com/docs/pentium_4.htm
Cheers

What light? we've yet to see anythign from that blowhard... I've read more than one article about this guy... he seems like a major ass and i've yet to see a equally clocked P4 northwood outperform an equally clocked AXP. AMD screwed the pooch with thier gay ass Pr ratings... i'm waiting for the .13's to come out and then Intel will be blown away. Mhz ain't nothing anymore its been proved over and over again. Oh but wow i can overclock a 1.6a to 2.4 Ghz and it will finally beat a XP1900+(1.6 GHz) i'd be proud of that myself I'm not against Intel at all... I'd love to get my hands on one of the P3 Tualatins as they'd smoke and equally clocked P4. Their one hell of a chip. I just think what Intel has done to win the Mhz war is chickenshit and outright stupid... Pay more for less is their marketing scheme.

Performance really isn't an issue anymore - not for me. Frankly this P3-1000 with a Ti-200 runs EVERYTHING to my satisfaction.

I have been getting the itch to upgrade just for the sake of it, but I think I'm going to hold out until closer to the end of the year. I just can't rationalize it.

Whether it'll be AMD or Intel I'm still not sure. Money will probably be the deciding factor in the end.

Geesh i was just pointing out an article
Its kinda funny when everyone is jumping on intel everyone loves it but when intel comes out and regains the lead again everyone says ah all those articles are biased
Eveyone posts a link to a article slagging intel against amd but watch out when it the other way around

Im a amd user and pretty loyal my last 4 systems have been amd but ther e losing ground fast and i dont think t bred is gonna keep up
hell i hope im wrong
I think hammer mite be a lot of hot air
Lets deal with what we can buy here and now not in some fantasy land and at the moment intel is the fastest desktop proccessor you can buy

Cheers

{shaking head} U sound like the dude in that article... Yeah ok Intel is fastest... Mhz Wise so what... Real time performance the P4 can't hack it unless its running 600Mhz faster... ITS NOT MYTH ITS FACT look at all the benchmarks done. Who's got the fastest chip... AMD i don't rate speed off of mhz i rate it off of performance. If a 1.6 Gig AMD can run just as fast as a 2.2 Gig P4 and the cost is $300 less... WTF would i want to buy a PEE4??? T-bred is .13 core... It will be able to clock pretty damn high. Jeez you have no faith or what? That whole article is nothing more than some dude rambling on with no FACTS to prove his point. Says May 1st we'll see what it shows... It will show a 2.4 Gig P4 beating a 2000+ XP by 1fps in Q3A WOW i'll be highly impressed. Personally i wish Intel would ditch the whole P4 line and crank up the P3 Tualatin... i guarntee ya then they'll have a chip that can smoke an Athlon. But no the wonderful non implemented and won't be for the next year SSE2 is so much more important to them... The whole arcitecture of the P4 just sucks... even reading the links on that article that dude says that. I'm not flaming Intel at all as they do make good chips... The P3 line was great and still is with the Tualatin. All of my systems up until i built a 900 Mhz Tbird were Intel systems and i was happy with them. i've had 3 different Athlon motherboards and 4 different chips and i've helped upgrade my buddy's comp to a 2.0a about a month back and my poor little ole 1700+ Oc'd to 1.7 Gig ripped that thing a new ass in all the benchmarks i ran them through.

If you want the absolute best performance, get the highest clocked P4. If you want to save some money, get an Athlon. I'm getting pretty sick of the anti-Intel crap that is so predominant on the internet now. I'm not fan of Intel, but the AMD zombies repeating the same things over and over need to cool down with the hatred toward Intel. For one, try to realize that the slower per-clock and higher Mhz effectively cancel each other out in many cases. So what if it takes so many more Mhz to run at the same real speed? They still run at the same real speed, so who cares? The value issue is valid and with Thoroughbred and higher clock speeds AMD will likely retake the throne. Still, the whole scene needs to take a step back and realize that it is becoming more hypnotized and zombified than the pro-Intel crowd.

JMan

The whole bitch about the P4 is that its all a marketing scheme for Intel and they're making tons off of it from the stupid people who know dick about computers. They see P4 2.4 Gig and their OMG this is the fastest i have to have it. When in all reality their buying a 1.8 Gig rig. Thats why Intel is not liked. And people wonder why AMD is going with the PR rating... I don't blame them they have a slower chip that will perform just as good as the so called faster P4 but if people was to see an Athlon 1.73 Gig which is the 2100+ vs a 2.4 P4 and they want the fastest what are they gonna buy. If i was an idiot i'd buy the P4. Thats what pisses me off about the whole thing. I'd probably get a P4 2.4 Gig chip if it performed like it should.

Originally posted by JMan
If you want the absolute best performance, get the highest clocked P4. If you want to save some money, get an Athlon. I'm getting pretty sick of the anti-Intel crap that is so predominant on the internet now. I'm not fan of Intel, but the AMD zombies repeating the same things over and over need to cool down with the hatred toward Intel. For one, try to realize that the slower per-clock and higher Mhz effectively cancel each other out in many cases. So what if it takes so many more Mhz to run at the same real speed? They still run at the same real speed, so who cares? The value issue is valid and with Thoroughbred and higher clock speeds AMD will likely retake the throne. Still, the whole scene needs to take a step back and realize that it is becoming more hypnotized and zombified than the pro-Intel crowd.

JMan

AMEN

I own I highly OCed P4 and until last week also owned an 1.62 Athlon Setup

Both were great systems but you cant sneer at a 572mhz FSB....

Of course...My Athlon Rig had VERY close performance at signifigantly less cost.

When are fanboys and zealots gonna get over the marketing mental mumification and realize that this competition is a GOOD thing regardless of your preffered platform.

Yawn....

Pred, the thing is that these statistics don't mean jack to anyone but power users like us.

For the average schmuck on the street running AOL, Works and the occasional game of Solitaire and Deer Hunter, frankly, it doesn't matter if he's running a Celeron 900 or a 1.9Ghz TBird - he'll never notice the difference.

Of course it's all about marketting! So what? Look at NVidia with the ASSININE and MISLEADING Geforce4 MX nomenclature!

Speaking of marketting - the one BRILLIANT thing Intel ever did was their "Intel Inside" campaign. You and I and most of the IT community might laugh at it, but it WORKED. When Joe Blow on the street thinks "PC" he thinks "Intel" because Intel is a "REAL" CPU (no I'm not degrading AMD - this is what the campaign accomplished so don't flame me). Intel spent a LOT of money on that campaign (and continues to) and it's been VERY effective for them.

AMD just doesn't have the money to spend on that sort of mass advertising, so their tactic has been to target their advertising to IT people and power suers (us) in the hopes that we're in a position to influence our companies to use AMD from a technical standpoint (more bang from the buck, friendlier support, etc).

HOWEVER this may not really work in the long run. Fact is that the IT engineer RARELY make the final purchase decisions. Usually the purchasing department bean counter does (that's the way it worked at my old company) and THAT guy watches Monday Night Football and the "Intel Inside" commercials and when you or I tell him that AMD is just as good or better, he overrides us. Plus the distributer is going to give him an Intel Pen Set and Coffee Mug if he buys Intel. He doesn't know JACK about the technology (which is why he ordered 20 Fujitsu drives when you asked for 20 WDC drives: "They're all the same right? Besides I get a discount and 20 Fujitsu mouse pads with the order...").

Fact is that Intel dominates because they have most of the OEM market. Intel gives VERY steep quantity OEM discounts to manufacturers like Dell and they offer MAJOR incentives.

AMD chooses to not to deeply discount quantity OEM (frankly they can't afford to - they don't have enough of the market share).

People mistakenly think that AMD is deeply discounting because their CPUs are cheaper when bought in small quantities. Not entirely true. It's mainly the fact that Intel DOESN'T discount at all for small quantities that makes small quantities of AMD CPUs so much cheaper by comparison.

I have to agree with the sentiment that these CPUs are now equivalent - the MHz rating is becoming meaningless. Except for bragging rights, who cares if you have a 1.8 Tbird and I have 2.4 P4 if they both run games at effectively the same framerate, and our systems cost about the same?

Bottom line for people like us will be cost. An AMD system is USUALLY cheaper to put together yourself unless your in the business and can get a deal on Intel.

I can sometimes get a better price on Intel CPUs and mobos through a friend who orders in large quantities, so in the end price will decide. And for my own personal system I still prefer Intel because it's what my business clients are all running, so that's what I prefer to be the most familiar with. I've YET to work on a single business system around here that's running an Athlon CPU. They're all Intel except for the occasional old AMD K6 system.

Peace...

Oh, something else I wanted to throw out there... think about this, and realize that business success in the CPU arena is much more complex than just having the fastest CPU...

AMD has a small niche of the market - mostly power users and do it yourselfers like us, and specialty computer manufacturers catering to power users and gamers.

Alienware for instance would probably be just as happy selling Intel if they could buy them for less than AMD CPUs in the quantities they deal in (Alienware may sell a lot of computers, but it's nothing compared to Dell, Gateway or Hewlett Packard who get a MUCH better discount because of the HUGE quantities they buy).

If you think about it, because of the massive market share differences, Intel could EASILY put AMD out of business. All they'd have to do is deeply discount CPU prices across the board IRREGARDLESS OF QUANTITY. They could easily afford to do it - they have such a huge market share. If they did that for 3 or 4 years AMD would probably go under, and in the large scheme of things it wouldn't cost Intel much in profit loses.

THEY WON'T DO THAT THOUGH - It's NOT in their best interest. Here's why:

1) The bean counters have to answer to share holders. Shareholders only see the short term, and they'd riot if Intel's profits went down short term even if they'd profit bigtime in the end.

2) Intel REALLY DOESN'T WANT US (power users, gamers, etc) as customers (sniff... sniff...). We've already cost them too much money back in the 486, Pentium1 and Pentium2 days. We tend to abuse our gear and overclock CPUs. We're savvy enough to fight for RMA returns after we've abused them. We're a nuisance. Unlike your normal Compaq or Gateway owner, we cost them money down the road. Intel is more than happy to allow AMD to have the nuiscance techies and their overclocking culture. It's a bone they allow them because of number 3 below....

3) Intel NEEDS AMD as a competitor. Intel has to be VERY careful to avoid the problems that Microsoft has been having lately. Intel IS a monopoly - even more so than Microsoft when you think about it. There's an Intel CPU in just about every single business PC, and the large majority of home PCs. Most are also using Intel chipsets and mobos. A healthy AMD, limited to a market niche that Intel really doesn't want anyway is a GOOD THING for Intel.

Food for thought....

Although I have nothing against Intel, this box has a 1ghz T-bird and the only reason I once again jumped on the upgrade bandwagon is that I just happened to see a used 1.4ghz T-bird that "can OC to 1.6ghz" for a measelly $75 (plus an inexpensive newer, simpler mobo to support it) so I couldn't resist. I wasn't actively seeking it but had thought for a while that if I saw a deal like that, I'd go for it.
I couldn't justify spending serious cash on another cpu, mobo, ram again however as for me, I doubt that I'd really even notice that much improvement. My present cpu, mobo does run everything I've got just fine but like all of us "abusers" here, I too get that itch once and while. I think that with a 1.6ghz T-bird (which I think it'll do), I should be good for a while yet, like a year maybe?

exactly i agree with fp

I get tired of amd zealots and im one myself that every time they up the ante everyone goes ohhh when t bred gets here ill show you when hammer arrives.
God these chips dont even exsisit in the hands of consumers so how they are gonna perform is pure conjecture

As of now intel is faster gaming proccessor and getting faster here and now with what we can buy today

Please dont respond with childish responses like when t bred gets here when hammer arrives its fantasy and pure conjecture

Cheers

Isn't it getting a little rediculas argueing over which is faster. Both are so fast that I dont think anyone can tell the difference with out the aid of some benchmark. For what I consider normal usage, playing games, surfing, email, an occasional movie, mp3s, I find it very had to tell the difference in anything over 1 gig. I hope that both companies can do well in the future the competion is good for us the end consumer.

The articale in the first post is kind of lame in my eyes tho. The guy just kind of rambles on and offers no numbers or facts.

I don't consider myself a AMD Zealot If i had the cash i'd get a Tualatin setup in a heartbeat. The P4 is nothing more than bloated hype, plain and simple. And their luring all the idiots into their scheme... oh well.. When they are in court just like MS is being accused of beign a monopoly i'm gonna sit back and enjoy it.