So what's your roadmap?

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:14 pm

Vid, I don't overclock. This is my main business / gaming workstation. I NEVER overclock anything on it. It has to be stable.

Experiment if you like to, but there's not such thing as a totally stable overclocked system.

BillyGoat · Post by **BillyGoat** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:24 pm

Originally posted by FlyingPenguin
Vid, I don't overclock. This is my main business / gaming workstation. I NEVER overclock anything on it. It has to be stable.

Experiment if you like to, but there's not such thing as a totally stable overclocked system.

I didnt think this was the humor section

VidmanII · Post by **VidmanII** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:26 pm

Originally posted by FlyingPenguin
Vid, I don't overclock. This is my main business / gaming workstation. I NEVER overclock anything on it. It has to be stable.

Experiment if you like to, but there's not such thing as a totally stable overclocked system.

Up to you as far as whether you want to OC or not. Fact is, that the mobile XP's are the handpicked, cream of crop Bartons tested by AMD themselves to run at far lower voltages than the stock desktops. They're the same chips just from best fab yields. For all intents and purposes, you are NOT OCing them when running them as I stated above. And as far as the last part of your statement regarding an OCed system not ever being totally stable, with all due respect.......that's ludicrous.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:40 pm

Trust me. The problem with overclocking is that small errors can occur if you're running the system outside specs.

The manufacturer is not stupid - they set the specs based on what the chip is capable of with some margin to spare. Yeah if you get lucky you get a "good" chip from the lot that can push the edge farther than others.

So maybe you this causes your system to have an unusual event (program crash, glitch, freeze, whatever) maybe 2 times in x number of cycles instead of 1 times in the same number of cycles.

Well that's okay if you're a gamer and want to build a power system on the cheap.that's fine. You'll never notice it. Computers lockup for no good reason all the time, games crash. If it happens a small percentage of the time more who cares?

If you're running a professional video editing system, recording studio, or just need a reliable system for some other reason, then it's unacceptable.

Been there, done that. I don't need to worry every time something strange happens, whether it's the overclock.

BillyGoat · Post by **BillyGoat** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:45 pm

Originally posted by FlyingPenguin

If you're running a professional video editing system, recording studio, or just need a reliable system for some other reason, then it's unacceptable.

Wow, you just described exactly what I do with my system- it runs 24/7 btw

If you know the proper testing proceedures you wont have these problems-
I dont tighten down a build until I know its 100% ready for any task

VidmanII · Post by **VidmanII** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:01 pm

I guess we'll just have to disagree but I'll put my system up against any stock AMD or Intel system out there in any stability test you want to run, for as long as you want to run it. You may have "been there" as far as OCing goes, but when it comes to the stability aspect of OCing, I'm inclined to believe you haven't "done that". It's an art, not an exact science. A stable OCed system doesnt' happen by accident.

And again I say this with all due respect in that you've helped many people, including myself, with your knowledge of many "things computer". Having said that, I do think that sometimes you tend to turn a blind eye to others who, may indeed, have a clue to other aspects of computer building and/or testing that JUST MAYBE you haven't had as much experience with as they.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:33 pm

Well that's my point. I need a stable system. I don't need the "hassle" of overclocking with my main rig. It takes time to get it right, and there is NO "It's stable" moment. You THINK it's stable until the next time it stumbles, then you tweak some more.

Case in point: Everyone who thought they had nice stable o/c'd systems were dismayed when UT2003 came out and started crashing their computers. Their systems were stable.... running anything else, but UT2003 stressed them out more than anything else.

That's why I say there is no true totally stable O/C system. It's impossible to know for sure until something unforseen stresses it. The days of simple overclocking are over. There are too many variables. If you're exceeding factory specs, you're on your own. You want to be there, no problem. Just as long as you're aware there's no guarantees.

Yes it involves a lot of work to overclock. I don't want or need that on my main rig. I need it TO WORK. Stock, out of the box, it works.

It's not worth it to me personally to overclock anymore. I don't have the time nor do I want the aggravation.

Executioner · Post by **Executioner** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:40 pm

I'm still running my same 3 year old rig with a P3 1GHz, 512 megs of ram, and Win98. Not upgrading until it dies, and when I do, it will be not the latest stuff. I like buying used stuff from geeks who need the latest every 3 months.

VidmanII · Post by **VidmanII** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:56 pm

Originally posted by FlyingPenguin
Well that's my point. I need a stable system. I don't need the "hassle" of overclocking with my main rig. It takes time to get it right, and there is NO "It's stable" moment. You THINK it's stable until the next time it stumbles, then you tweak some more.

Case in point: Everyone who thought they had nice stable o/c'd systems were dismayed when UT2003 came out and started crashing their computers. Their systems were stable.... running anything else, but UT2003 stressed them out more than anything else.

That's why I say there is no true totally stable O/C system. It's impossible to know for sure until something unforseen stresses it. The days of simple overclocking are over. There are too many variables. If you're exceeding factory specs, you're on your own. You want to be there, no problem. Just as long as you're aware there's no guarantees.

Yes it involves a lot of work to overclock. I don't want or need that on my main rig. I need it TO WORK. Stock, out of the box, it works.

It's not worth it to me personally to overclock anymore. I don't have the time nor do I want the aggravation.

You lecturing me about stability with air cooled OCing is like Jessica Simpson telling Lawrence Olivier how to act. Your previous posts and blatant generalizations regarding OCing, in the above post, attest to that. I mean come on.......EVERYONE's OCed system crashed with UT2003? Uh, I don't think so. I'd say that's a generalization.

I sell OCed systems to people with GUARANTEED server quality stability. They know they're OCed when they buy them. I've built dozens over the past years and exactly ONE has come back to me with any kind of stability problem and that was because the CPU fan died and triggered the "CPU shutdown above selected temp" setting in the BIOS.

Further, if you're so concerned about stability, shouldn't you be using some XEON based rig with ECC RAM and the like? OCing is not hard work and doesn't take a ton of time to accomplish either. It takes some basic knowledge of thermal properties and knowing what components work. A monkey ( no offense Blade

) could slap together an air-cooled nforce2/ AMD XP mobile rig and OC it to 3200+ desktop specs and it will run cooler at a lower voltage than your desktop Barton 3200+. That's the only point I was trying to make. And you'll save a $100+ to boot. Trust me, it WILL be as stable as the chip you paid $187 for and I can give some you some testing scenarios to prove it.

Personally, I think if you had just taken the time to research how EASY it is to OC the mobile chips I speak of here, you may have saved yourself some cash and would have learned something as well. There are plenty of subjects in the IT arena that I don't know jack sh!t about and I'm the first one to admit it. System building and air cooled OCing aren't on that list. That being said, Billygoat and Nascar know a TON more than I do about h2o cooling and the like, and it's MY pleasure to learn things when I discuss h2o cooling with them. There's nothing more amusing to me than someone pontificating on a subject that they obviously know so little about. Don't criticize what you don't ( or choose not to ) understand.

End of story, last word is all yours. In the meantime, whatever you do, DON'T OC that thing !!

Also, to get back on topic here, I think if people realized how well the AMD 64's run 32 bit apps, they'd be more inclined to build an AMD64 rig. Now THERE'S a chip that you don't need to OC. But I do anyway because I can.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:45 am

I sell OCed systems to people with GUARANTEED server quality stability.

I have no idea how you can guarantee such a thing, but if you're willing to more power to you. As long as people know they're getting an O/C system no problem.

Yes I over generalized about 2003, but a LOT of so-called stable O/C rigs couldn't run it. We can always do search on the forums and do a nostalgia trip. Lot's of people had problems.

No I don't need a Xeon - it's not a server. I just need a stable workstation.

Sorry. Didn't mean to get into a rant.

I have nothing against an O/C system, and when I had the time and money was a major issue I did overclock. Money is not an issue now and I don't have the time.

I suppose my knee jerk response was because I felt your initial post accused me of being stupid for not saving money by overclocking.

Peace.

Brian48 · Post by **Brian48** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:55 am

My roadmap is not very clear right now. I suppose the next real step is socket 939 and PCI-E. Just recently put together a box with an AMD64 3400+ and x800xt PE so I'm actually happy for a little while.

wvjohn · Post by **wvjohn** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:57 am

hehe....I almost pulled the trigger yesterday on a 3.06 dell 4600 for about $550 shipped

i have another dell 400sc with a 2.8/400 HT cpu and it never blinks and is so quiet i don't know it's on

i play DAOC and like to have a couple of toons up at once and the HT is huge when you are running 2 game clients at once (esp with at least 1 gig of ram)

where i used to be cpu or vidcard limited, I now find more than my problem is bandwidth on my broadband - esp on the uplink - of course that's only when I am trying to run 3 or more clients at once and they need to talk to each other

my main rig is a mobile 2400 at 2.2 but it there isn't any appreciable difference with my 2.8 dell rig

and i have come to hate bluescreens since my recreational computer is real limited atm

EvilHorace · Post by **EvilHorace** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:00 am

.....or, none of the above?

Seriously, new technology or not, my current and now technically outdated PCs STILL do EVERYTHING I ask them to do and do those tasks as quickly and efficiently as I need them to do. I havent even upgraded any of my PCs in over 2 yrs now and being that they still work A-OK, no problems, I can't justify a reason to build another PC yet.

Having played the 'keeping up with the latest and greatest' game before, I know that the only noticable difference I'd see after spending major $$$ and time to make yet another machine would only be a mere fraction of a second, not worth it for me.

PCA Forums

So what's your roadmap?

Uprgrade roadmap heading into Q4 and 2005?