Anyone know how hard it is to change from R-12 to R-134A

[bigcfromcinci]

My 92 Celica has the older R-12 and it's not as cold anymore.Instead of buying the older 60.00 a lb R-12..I'm thinking of converting it to the newer R-134A.Is this very hard to do yourself??Isn't it illegal to do my self

thanks

[Crabcake]

$60 a pound is still a lot cheaper than new condenser, evaparator, etc. Just about the only thing that can be salvaged is the compressor.

[EvilHorace]

Although there are kits for that now, I'd never do it in my own car as if it's not done right (flush, remove ALL R12 oil from system before replacing it with 134a oil), the oils themselves don't mix and cause problems. There's really no good, easy way to do that w/o replacing all the major components.

One thing to know that most who decide to try that fail to realize, if it's leaking now with R12, it'll STILL leak with 134a UNTIL you fix the cause of the leak. 134a also does not tolerate much moisture in the system or what then happens is moisture with its oil creates acids which burn through costly parts like evaporators and condensors (seen this happen many times). At bare minimal, besides trying to replace all R12 oil, you'll also need a new accumulator AND the system must be leak free and evacuated for at least 30 minutes with a vacuum pump.
Most DIYs don't have the equipment to do AC work correctly at their houses so at best, it'll be half-assed and if it works at all, probably won't work well for long.

You're then best to get the leak(s) detected and fixed and stay with R12. All my older R12 cars STILL use R12 and hopefully always still will although I'll admit that I get a significant employee price break
A converted R12 to 134a system won't cool as well either as 134a systems run at slightly higher pressures.

[PreDatoR]

Yeah what evil said...lol I know the cost to convert the system over will probalby run ya from 800 on up... cheaper to find the leak have it fixed and put a lb or 2 of R12 in...

[bigcfromcinci]

thanks guys..i believe i'll stick with the r-12

[Shadow250]

they also make an r-12 substitute that is not harmful to the ozone. you can get it from mexico.

[gryphyn]

the so-called mexican subsitute is quite a bit more flamible than the original R12, thus it is also dangerous to use in autos. Evil is correct about cost. Retrofits run up to $500 and the old oils are removed with flush, and nitrogen. Oh and if you ever do A/C classes the instucter tells us to evacuate a min 90 mins GM, 120 mins ford

[wvjohn]

i converted all my vehicles using the genuine PEP Boys converter kit ($34.95) a few years ago. If your r-12 doesn't work because of slow leaks (which was my case) you should be able to change over. the only one left is my 89 econoline and it does not get quite as cold as with the r-12 - i have to recharge it 1x year with two cans of the new stuff @ $4-5 -

what others said about getting all the old stuff out is probably true, but mine seems to work ok. reallly all you have to do is vent what's left, replace the fittings and put in new oil and coolant - a mechanic told me that you should really put in a new air dryer as well, i bought one for one of my cars when i converted, but he forgot to put it on and it worked ok - there is also some setting on the plumbing which is controlled by a set screw that needs to be adjusted about half a turn to have the pressure optimal but i can't remember exactly which one - the hardest part with mine is that I have to pull off the whole air cleaner assembly to get to the fill nipple - thanks ford!

the price on all this stuff and work on it makes Micro$oft look like the salvation army!

[Pugsley]

You cant do that!!! Venting that is!! if you got cought by the EPA youd be done for good!

[Racer X 50]

Another old thread.

You are not supposed to vent to the atmosphere. If you go to a shop don't pay more than $150 unless there is something wierd going on. Like a 911 twin turbo will be more than $150 but a Grand Am shouldn't be.........