PCA Forums

about that plane situation

I think it is pretty scary. They have no right to hold the plane and the people. They are clearly violating International Law. Unfortunatly I don't think there is a hell of a lot we can do about it short of attacking them and that is definatly not a good idea. I don't understand what they are trying to gain. They have had the plane long enough to get what they want out of it so what good does it do them to keep it anymore?

i heard 3 us naval destroyers were headded there.. i think military action could sefinitely lead to some bad shize..

Couple of things:

1. http://www.pcabusers.net/forums/showthr ... eadid=6858

They are clearly violating International Law. Unfortunatly I don't think there is a hell of a lot we can do about it short of attacking them and that is definatly not a good idea. I don't understand what they are trying to gain. They have had the plane long enough to get what they want out of it so what good does it do them to keep it anymore?

2. I don't recall China ever being a big fan of international law, so violating some areas of it is not a new thing for them.

3. Attacking them would be suicide. There is no way that the US military, in its current state, could maintain a conflict any longer than a few days against China's vast military (allbeit antiquated).

4. China still has plenty to gain. With each hour that passes with that plane in China's possession, they gain more and more political power (be it real or perceived) and the US looks more and more foolish/stupid/naive, etc.

i heard 3 us naval destroyers were headded there.. i think military action could sefinitely lead to some bad shize.

5. See number 3.

The war ships were quikly recalled and on the way home.

As for a a conflict lasting a few days? China does outnumber us man to man 10 to 1, but asumming nuclear force isn't used, a rusted AK and a F-8 from pre vietnam war times isn't gonna amount to much. Not saying it would be a easy sweep, and that they don't have high tech weapons...it would be very drawn out and bloody, but china has nothing in their favor conflict wise.

All of that aside.....the chinese could slap the americans they have with wet mops all night for 4 months and america would NEVER use force to get them. Nobody is gonna start a war over 24 people.

I just can't believe they claim our plane is the one at fault for turning into their highly meneuverable fighter. What....ever.

The issue is not that the plane hit the fighter it's that the people on the plane are suspected of spying on China. Reverse the roles, a chinise spy plane makes a force landing in the US would the US government hand back the crew and plane straight away?

I think it's much more likely they would arrest them all and imprison them to be traded back in other exchanges.

I just hope the President Bush is prepared to deal his way out of this and settle it with an apology of some description. I just hope he doesn't do something stupid like sending in rescue team. As for starting a war over 24 people don't bank on it, the pretext for WW1 started over the death of 1 man.

Just recently the US seems to be taking on a much more agressive stance with other super-powers which is undoing a lot of the good work by previous presidents I hope it doesn't continue.

Darkheart

This is a dangerous game the Chinese are playing. The Chinese use every situation they can to heighten tensions in order to gain concessions from the US. Well Clinton is no longer around to appease his Red Chinese buddies. And of course the Red Chinese were all over that plane asap. China stole most of their technology from the US!

The collision took place over 60 miles off the coast of Hainan in international waters. China claims almost all of the South China sea as theirs. Well its not.

Just look at this map to see how much of the South China Sea China is claiming. Its ludricrous!


The US repeatly asked China not to engage in that type of numskulled behavior. Well China didn't listen around and it bite them in the ass. Now China wants the US to apologize for something China caused and wants restitution for its fighter. Well that won't be happening. China is embarassed that one of its fighters was brought down in this manner. They should be. They caused the damn accident.

People in that region see China for the BIG bully for which it is. A country that increasingly is aggressive and pushing around its neighboring countries. One that will hold 2 scholars for its agenda.

Note that the US and China already clashed during the <A href="http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?ti=01FC9000" title="Korean War">Korean War</a> and hundreds of thousands of Chinese soldiers ended up dead.

Whether China likes it or not the US is a Pacific power and its there to stay. Its unfortunate the ancient, hard line Chinese leaders think of America as its enemy.

Originally posted by Darkheart
The issue is not that the plane hit the fighter it's that the people on the plane are suspected of spying on China. Reverse the roles, a chinise spy plane makes a force landing in the US would the US government hand back the crew and plane straight away?

I think it's much more likely they would arrest them all and imprison them to be traded back in other exchanges.

I just hope the President Bush is prepared to deal his way out of this and settle it with an apology of some description. I just hope he doesn't do something stupid like sending in rescue team. As for starting a war over 24 people don't bank on it, the pretext for WW1 started over the death of 1 man.

Just recently the US seems to be taking on a much more agressive stance with other super-powers which is undoing a lot of the good work by previous presidents I hope it doesn't continue.

Darkheart

Chinese spy plane? Sure it would make it across the ocean without crashing into the ocean? :lol

Other superpowers? There are no other superpowers. The US is the only superpower in the world today. The Soviet Union is dead {good riddance you <font color=red>commie b@stards!</font>} and China is a Pacific power. Oh we mustn't forget about the French though. <img src="http://www.pcabusers.net/forums/images/harhar.gif">

That type of wrong appeasing behaviour was tried in the past. It didn't work then and it just emboldens despots.

No the US wouldn't want to stand up to that bully now should it? No the US should not to help out weaker countries.

Keeping tabs on that bully is really not a bad thing you know. It seems like there's a double standard. Its okay for other countries to spy on the US but its not okay for the US to do the same. bs

*snort* WW1. A bunch of European powers squabbling. The US should not have even been involved in that war. But the Anglophiles had their way. <img src="http://www.geocities.com/laracroftsucks/thumbsdown3.x">

The good work by the previous administration was using the US military for social work while spreading it all over the world. What a load of nonsense.

[Edited by sbp on 04-04-2001 at 05:25 AM]

<< I think it's much more likely they would arrest them all and imprison them to be traded back in other exchanges. >>

<< The issue is not that the plane hit the fighter it's that the people on the plane are suspected of spying on China. Reverse the roles, a chinise spy plane makes a force landing in the US would the US government hand back the crew and plane straight away? >>

Darheart you are so full of shit!! :| How the hell do you know that? Huh!!? You don't!!

When it comes to any discussion about the usa you have always been among the first to bad mouth us so I think it"s best for you to stay out of any future related discussions since you only see us as a pain in the ass. Kinda like the way we see arrogant *thinks they* know it alls like you. I won't even bother addressing your other lame asses comments which are clearly due to petty jealousy and resentment.

ONE LAST TIME. No more country bashing from any who *think* they know all the facts. If you come here to bad mouth the usa the get the fvck out of here! Or you'll be helped out. End of story!

All of this makes me think. It's too bad that if they ever did land on our soil we would be unable to defend ourselves if they got very far because our government took away all our guns because of a few retards. Ok, now they haven't taken them all away yet but what if. Just thinking about this and that.

BTW: If you don't like what I just said I'm flame-proof in this thread so don't bother.

Tell ya a secret Schwartz, any invasion to NC will be tough for any invading forces. We have weapons here and some of us even have conceal weapon permits. There are lots of rednecks here but they have weapons and know how to use them well and will not hesitate using them against any enemies.

Anyway, back on topic. Since we now have 2 threads on this I replied on the other one about whose fault the collision is. It is clearly the chinese. The damage to the ep-3e was at it's nose and 2 engines, that makes it look like the nimble fighter was in front the the lumbering spy plane and trying to be intimidating.

And why was the fighter that close? This is similar to a sports car trying to intimidate a freight truck. The truck isn't that manueverable while the sports car is. The idiot chinese pilot obviously got too close trying his overly agressive tactics and now may have paid for it with his life. *IF* he really is missing as the chinese are saying.

Thee won't be any war over this but I promise you we'll never forget how the chinese were over this issue.

Wow, Blade that really surprised me never seen an outburst like that from you b4. Sorry if you think my comments inflamatory but remember I see a different news and world view from you guys.

Not everyone is dead certain that the plane wasn't there to spy, it's not unbeliveable to think that the US (like most other countries) does run spying missions over other countries. All I was suggesting that IF the roles were to be reversed then I wouldn't expect the US to return the crew and plane without some kind of deal.

I'm not saying this is so, just speculating that it is possible maybe even likely. The Chinise are blaming the US and US are blaming the Chinese, I just hope they can sort it out.

As for being jealous of the US, jealous of what? I don't get it.

I'm not here to badmouth the US, and never have done, I actively LIKE Americans and the US, doesn't mean I agree with everything that it does and I don't hold individuals to account for larger actions. There are a things that everyone likes or doesn't about anywhere or what countries do. The US has been great about reducing consumption of leaded petrol, banning it nearly 20 years ago (As opposed to last year in the UK), on fossil fuel pollution they do less well and seem unwilling to change but doesn't tarnish my world view much.

I've always held this forum up to all those people who do badmouth the US or US citizens to show them that really we are pretty much the same. Americans arn't gun toting maniacs and the English arn't anal retentives and usually in this forum everyone gets on really well. I thought might be useful for people to see how someone outside the US was having this story presented to them. Kinda unhappy that at my presentation of just of an alternative point of view the site moderator flames me .

Anyway if you want me gone from this forum ok I'll stay out.

Darkheart

Dh I have always liked you but this isn't the first time you have comments putting down the usa. I remember asking you several times at agn to back off with that. So please don't try to make you look like an innocent victim here, I know better.

Yes I am in a bad mood regarding anyone putting down the usa after coco's comments in this thread
http://www.pcabusers.net/forums/showthr ... eadid=6858
in case you missed it.

You spoke like that was your true feelings but you do not know the facts. It does sound like you do have resentment towards the usa as many other countries have. Like I said, this isn't your first time bad mouthing the usa or putting us down. However I aplogize if I offended you, all I am saying is please do not come here to put down the usa. I am sick and tired off this anti usa bs. Know the facts first and not just hearsay. Peace, please

The situation here will be resovled soon enough, at least I think so. As long as China does not kill them, torture them, or mistreat them in any way, I think everything will turn out ok. I mean, look at what the US does to spies. We say, "Stop that.", then question them for a few weeks before returning them. I forsee China handling this similarly.

BUT, the way it happened is downright playing dirty. I respect the Chinese people and their culture. I DO NOT respect the government. It is tyranny, pure and simple.

As for war, China would not stand a chance in the long run. There are too many people in China who do not like their governemnt. The US would set up guerilla troops with locals, and attack with weapons that are ludicrously more advanced than China's arsenal. China may be huge, and have a lto of weapons. Those are both moot points, as their weapons suck, and the government has little support from its citizens.

Blade is right about China trying to invade the US. It won't happen. We have too many armed citizens. Hell, the national guard would finally get to do some fighting instead of croud control.