More personal freedoms threatened... watch where you take pictures...

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:50 am

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... questioned

DoPeY5007 · Post by **DoPeY5007** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:38 am

how lame

dadx2mj · Post by **dadx2mj** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:49 am

And if they dont question people taking pics of potential Terrorists targets and there is an attack everyone is up in arms saying they did not do enough to prevent it. It is a tough call in my eyes.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:07 am

Dad, it's not just a matter of questioning. Nothing wrong with that. These people treated him like shit. They told him there were laws against what he was doing which is a total lie, and they intimidated him needlessly.

Now granted, he shouldn't have given the original cop lip about his ID, and that's probably why the whole thing got blown out of proportion. The first cop took a grudge and called in the feds.

Cop asks you for ID, you don't ask why, you give it to him. PERIOD.

However we're going to see more and more of this. Moreover we're seeing such a rush of people being hired for Homeland Security that it's inevitable that some of them are going to be underqualified idiots with a badge.

The reason the whole thing makes me nervous is because we've seen abuse of this kind of power before: The FBI under J. Edgar Hoover for instance.

darcy · Post by **darcy** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:36 am

the police responded to a call of a suspicious character.
they did their job.
a Corps spokesperson said photographs are allowed.
a sticky wicket in today's world.

fear is something i understand.
i was 4 blocks away when the WTC's first tower went down.
it's also something i faced, and didn't stop me from boarding a plane 3 weeks later.

i've taken tons of pix of federal bldgs and the NYSE in nyc's financial district since then.
never had a problem, and believe me, there are patrols there each and every day.

leave the guy alone already.

the battle between fear and common sense never ends.
hopefully the latter will reign. one day.

MK888 · Post by **MK888** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:46 am

Cop asks you for ID, you don't ask why, you give it to him. PERIOD.

I have to disagree with this. If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have no obligation to show anyone anything. Being forced to show ID, for not doing anything, is the first step to becoming a police state.

As far as taking pics.... If you are taking pics of a Nuclear plant, that is one thing, but an historic railroad bridge???

TheSovereign · Post by **TheSovereign** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:32 pm

#1 he doesnt fit the profile - pro
#2 he is the correct age group - con
#3 he isnt being suspicious - pro
#4 hes not islamic - pro

see its not a tough call

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:15 pm

The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that it is not an infringement on your rights to be asked to hand over ID.

Executioner · Post by **Executioner** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:32 pm

Jeez, what is the big deal about handing over some id? I want this...I'm sick of all the illegals that come here, and if they determine that someone is here illegally, then get them the fvck out of here.

dadx2mj · Post by **dadx2mj** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:58 pm

FP you said it right here

Now granted, he shouldn't have given the original cop lip about his ID, and that's probably why the whole thing got blown out of proportion. The first cop took a grudge and called in the feds.

Cop asks you for ID, you don't ask why, you give it to him. PERIOD.

The rest of that post is probably pretty right on too but this guy being defiant in the beginning brought on his troubles in my opinion.

I have to disagree with this. If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have no obligation to show anyone anything. Being forced to show ID, for not doing anything, is the first step to becoming a police state.

MK888 that has been the law for as long as I can remember. If and when a Cop asks you for ID you have to give it to him. They dont need a reason to ask for it . If that makes us a Police State then that is what we are but it has been that was for a long long time and with the current Terrorist situation it is only bound to get worse.

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:16 pm

I have to disagree with this. If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have no obligation to show anyone anything. Being forced to show ID, for not doing anything, is the first step to becoming a police state.

Excuse me? It's attitudes like that that will get you into trouble - even before 9-11 and much more so now.

Law enforcement officers have EVERY RIGHT to demand your ID. There are also vagrancy laws on the books in most states that will allow a police officer to arrest you for vagrancy if you don't have any ID and have less than a certain amount of money on you. So feel free to push your luck.

There are laws in most states that require you to carry ID at all times, which is why even if you don't drive you must still get a non-driver's license photo ID (usually obtained at the driver's license office).

MOREOVER, here's some advise I would take to heart: a cop asks you to do ANYTHING short of commit a crime, no matter how humiliating you consider it, YOU DO IT. You don't argue with a cop. Giving a cop attitude is NOT going to make it better for you and will likely make it a LOT worse. You have a problem with it, then AFTERWARDS you file a complaint.

LEGALLY (in most states) a cop that catches you pissing on the sidewalk can offer you a choice of cleaning it up or going to jail. You think cleaning up piss is beneath you? Go to jail.

Let's keep in mind people that police have a difficult job. A cop never knows if the next asshole he pulls over is going to be someone who's psychotic and carrying a gun. So if the next cop that pulls you over is a bit edgy, give him a break, and unless you want a bullet in the head DO WHAT HE TELLS YOU.

I think this kid got needlessly harrassed, but he could have avoided the entire incident by being respectful of the police officer's authority in the first place. The cop went overboard calling in Homeland Security though. He just wanted to mess with the kid because he gave him a hard time, but that was a stupid waste of resource.

In a real terrorist situation, this kid would likely have been a distraction while five real bad-guys were planting a bomb on the other side of the facility.

'nuff said

xsiled · Post by **xsiled** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:26 pm

bingo.

bigcfromcinci · Post by **bigcfromcinci** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:07 pm

Excuse me? It's attitudes like that that will get you into trouble - even before 9-11 and much more so now.Law enforcement officers have EVERY RIGHT to demand your ID. There are also vagrancy laws on the books in most states that will allow a police officer to arrest you for vagrancy if you don't have any ID and have less than a certain amount of money on you. So feel free to push your luck.

There are laws in most states that require you to carry ID at all times, which is why even if you don't drive you must still get a non-driver's license photo ID (usually obtained at the driver's license office).

MOREOVER, here's some advise I would take to heart: a cop asks you to do ANYTHING short of commit a crime, no matter how humiliating you consider it, YOU DO IT. You don't argue with a cop. Giving a cop attitude is NOT going to make it better for you and will likely make it a LOT worse. You have a problem with it, then AFTERWARDS you file a complaint.

LEGALLY (in most states) a cop that catches you pissing on the sidewalk can offer you a choice of cleaning it up or going to jail. You think cleaning up piss is beneath you? Go to jail.

Let's keep in mind people that police have a difficult job. A cop never knows if the next asshole he pulls over is going to be someone who's psychotic and carrying a gun. So if the next cop that pulls you over is a bit edgy, give him a break, and unless you want a bullet in the head DO WHAT HE TELLS YOU.

I think this kid got needlessly harrassed, but he could have avoided the entire incident by being respectful of the police officer's authority in the first place. The cop went overboard calling in Homeland Security though. He just wanted to mess with the kid because he gave him a hard time, but that was a stupid waste of resource.

In a real terrorist situation, this kid would likely have been a distraction while five real bad-guys were planting a bomb on the other side of the facility.

'nuff said

WERD

LTrain · Post by **LTrain** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:08 am

Originally posted by FlyingPenguin
Dad, it's not just a matter of questioning. Nothing wrong with that. These people treated him like shit. They told him there were laws against what he was doing which is a total lie, and they intimidated him needlessly.

That's just normal pig attitude. They're going to do anything they can to intimidate you, and mess with your head. ESPECIALLY if they think you're guilty.

MK888 · Post by **MK888** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:47 pm

FP I think you are right.... Things would be much easier if the kid had just shown the ID. And yeah, things since sept 11 have gotten worse, and will continue to get worse. And yeah an attitude like that has, and will continue to get people in trouble. But....

My point is that all he was doing was taking a picture!!!

`[W]henever a police officer accosts an individual and restrains his freedom to walk away, he has "seized" that person,' id., at 16, and the Fourth Amendment requires that the seizure be `reasonable.'" United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U.S. 873, 878 (1975).

Even the cop said that he was not legally obligated to show him anything!!! He knew that the request was not reasonable, and in knowing that, he loses the ability to say that he was unfamilliar with the law. He was pissed off that the guy (who was also familliar with his rights) sent him packing, and decided to be a dick.

However we're going to see more and more of this. Moreover we're seeing such a rush of people being hired for Homeland Security that it's inevitable that some of them are going to be underqualified idiots with a badge.

Absolutly, and I think that this is a perfect example. Not only that, but you are giving a group of people very broad, very vague powers, and turning them loose on the public. Big egos form very quickly in those types of situations.