best -sprots car -shelby mustang -or 66 dodge charger
worst -cheve -vega-no 1
best and worst american car ever made ?
-
renovation
- Posts: 13859
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:24 am
- Location: on a lake in michigan
- Contact:
hmm... lots of possibilities for both catagories. Here are some candidates:
Best car: Chevy Caprice (from about '82 on up). Why? Comfortable ride and could be made to handle pretty well (ala police package or touring suspension option). Solid body with ample room. Durable drivetrain and could be made to put out decent power (excluding the 5.7L diesel POS). Even the 4.3L V6 was a good motor in it. As long as these cars were maintained properly, you could get *alot* of miles out of them. While the Crown Vic was decent, it had more problems than the Caprice (VV carburetor, rust and weak AOD trans). The newer Crown Vics are much better, but the 4.6 just isn't a high mileage engine (especially if you don't use the right viscosity oil in it).
Best truck: Jeep CJ/Wrangler. Need a pick-up? Get a Scrambler
These are rugged go-anywhere little buggers. Easy to work on and are true work horses. I'm a bit dissapointed with the new ones although the coil suspension is nice. You just can't leave the tops off them anymore and hose out all the mud (too much electronics, airbags etc. 
)
Worst car: Most late 70's, early 80's cars fit in this catagory. Indeed a dark time in our automotive history. Here are some real gems:
1: Chrysler Cordoba (and just about every other Chrysler product during this time). Did you need to start your car when it was wet out? Good luck! Don't get me started on that poor excuse for a fuel injection system on the early 80's Imperial.
2: GM 5.7L diesel (and 4.3 diesel if you can still find one). These mid/full size GM's with the diesels were slow, smokey and unreliable. Turned off the American public to diesel cars.
3: Pinto. Need I say more?
4: Cadillacs with HT4100 and the 4-6-8 engines. POS, POS, POS. Man what a POS these motors were.
Worst truck: This is a tough one as I think we've done OK with trucks through the years. A couple of peves:
1: Late 70's GM trucks. Can you say body (and frame) rot?
2: Damn Ford twin I-beam suspension. Man I hated replacing those radius arm bushings when I was a mechanic.
[Edited by vwkess on 12-22-2000 at 02:00 AM]
Best car: Chevy Caprice (from about '82 on up). Why? Comfortable ride and could be made to handle pretty well (ala police package or touring suspension option). Solid body with ample room. Durable drivetrain and could be made to put out decent power (excluding the 5.7L diesel POS). Even the 4.3L V6 was a good motor in it. As long as these cars were maintained properly, you could get *alot* of miles out of them. While the Crown Vic was decent, it had more problems than the Caprice (VV carburetor, rust and weak AOD trans). The newer Crown Vics are much better, but the 4.6 just isn't a high mileage engine (especially if you don't use the right viscosity oil in it).
Best truck: Jeep CJ/Wrangler. Need a pick-up? Get a Scrambler
These are rugged go-anywhere little buggers. Easy to work on and are true work horses. I'm a bit dissapointed with the new ones although the coil suspension is nice. You just can't leave the tops off them anymore and hose out all the mud (too much electronics, airbags etc. )Worst car: Most late 70's, early 80's cars fit in this catagory. Indeed a dark time in our automotive history. Here are some real gems:
1: Chrysler Cordoba (and just about every other Chrysler product during this time). Did you need to start your car when it was wet out? Good luck! Don't get me started on that poor excuse for a fuel injection system on the early 80's Imperial.
2: GM 5.7L diesel (and 4.3 diesel if you can still find one). These mid/full size GM's with the diesels were slow, smokey and unreliable. Turned off the American public to diesel cars.
3: Pinto. Need I say more?
4: Cadillacs with HT4100 and the 4-6-8 engines. POS, POS, POS. Man what a POS these motors were.
Worst truck: This is a tough one as I think we've done OK with trucks through the years. A couple of peves:
1: Late 70's GM trucks. Can you say body (and frame) rot?
2: Damn Ford twin I-beam suspension. Man I hated replacing those radius arm bushings when I was a mechanic.
[Edited by vwkess on 12-22-2000 at 02:00 AM]
-
Reg Kmet
- Golden Member
- Posts: 1693
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 4:02 am
- Location: Gimli, Manitoba
- Contact:
I cant really speak for the older generations of vehicle, but here's my 2 cents
Best Car The 4th Gen Trans AM's & Camaro z 28's These bad boys sported LT1 and in 98 LS1 engines that cranked out between 285-305 RWHP, plus got not bad gas milage for car's with 5.7's (350's) in em.. these things have a ton of power and not too extreme a price tag. Just look at the 2000 trans am and where it finished in Popular Mechanics shootout!
Worst car Pontiac Aztec, Ford focus, PT cruiser... Dear god how on earth could such butt ugly concepts like this make it onto the showroom floor? makes me feel very bad that their dropping the F bodies in 02' in favor of things like this... what's next? a corvette minivan?
My mindset? It's good there are so many 4 cylinder eco boxes crusing around! Saves more gas for us V8 Badboys!! cuz there's nbo replacement for displacement
Wkess, i wouldnt call the late model 70's gm trucks the worst, heck ever drive one with a 350? a la mine consider the rust weight reduction
Best Car The 4th Gen Trans AM's & Camaro z 28's These bad boys sported LT1 and in 98 LS1 engines that cranked out between 285-305 RWHP, plus got not bad gas milage for car's with 5.7's (350's) in em.. these things have a ton of power and not too extreme a price tag. Just look at the 2000 trans am and where it finished in Popular Mechanics shootout!
Worst car Pontiac Aztec, Ford focus, PT cruiser... Dear god how on earth could such butt ugly concepts like this make it onto the showroom floor? makes me feel very bad that their dropping the F bodies in 02' in favor of things like this... what's next? a corvette minivan?
My mindset? It's good there are so many 4 cylinder eco boxes crusing around! Saves more gas for us V8 Badboys!! cuz there's nbo replacement for displacement
Wkess, i wouldnt call the late model 70's gm trucks the worst, heck ever drive one with a 350? a la mine
consider the rust weight reduction Well, like I said, I think we've done OK with trucks. Just pointed out a couple of peeves I had. I've driven plenty of 350 GM trucks, even a few 454's. Power doesn't do you any good if you're falling through the floor! I've seen body mount points rotted on so many of these. Take a turn and the whole body slides around on the frame. Not good! Your's is a '74, right? '76 to about '80 or '81 have been the worst that I've seen.
[Edited by vwkess on 12-22-2000 at 03:17 AM]
I've seen body mount points rotted on so many of these. Take a turn and the whole body slides around on the frame. Not good! Your's is a '74, right? '76 to about '80 or '81 have been the worst that I've seen.[Edited by vwkess on 12-22-2000 at 03:17 AM]
I just saw my first Pontiac Aztec tonight. What a heaping pile of ugly repulsiveness is that thing. I actually felt sorry for the individual pieces of metal that had to be transformed and slapped on the Aztec. They could have ended up being a pair of scissors, a railroad tie, even a toilet handle would be better than that. Here's what I imagine happened at Pontiac to get that monstrosity on the streets -
Designer: "Sir, here are the new concept sketches for the Aztec."
Mr. Salinski: "Excellent work grunt, let me see them." *studies sketches* "For the love of everything holy!! NO!! God NO!! What have you done here? It looks like you took the back end of a Honda CRX and raised it by about 2 feet. Where's Harris? I want to see what he came up with."
Designer: "Harris is in the hospital sir."
Mr. Salinski: "What happened?"
Designer: "He got an ulcer when I showed him my ideas, sir."
Mr. Salinski: "So this is all we have to work with?"
Designer: "Well, yes sir."
Mr. Salinski: "You're French aren't you?"
Designer: "How did you know that sir?"
Mr. Salinski: "Cause only the French can dream up cars this repulsive."
Designer: "Sir, here are the new concept sketches for the Aztec."
Mr. Salinski: "Excellent work grunt, let me see them." *studies sketches* "For the love of everything holy!! NO!! God NO!! What have you done here? It looks like you took the back end of a Honda CRX and raised it by about 2 feet. Where's Harris? I want to see what he came up with."
Designer: "Harris is in the hospital sir."
Mr. Salinski: "What happened?"
Designer: "He got an ulcer when I showed him my ideas, sir."
Mr. Salinski: "So this is all we have to work with?"
Designer: "Well, yes sir."
Mr. Salinski: "You're French aren't you?"
Designer: "How did you know that sir?"
Mr. Salinski: "Cause only the French can dream up cars this repulsive."
-
EvilHorace
- Life Member
- Posts: 6611
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 7:14 am
- Location: Greenfield, WI
I work at a dealer that sells Ponti-junks (I hate then all, except old Pontiacs like GTOs) and they've got a ton of those Aztecs all over the lot, NOT selling. The Pontiac lead salesguy says he can't sell them because of their uglyness but tells me that it was designed by young engineers right out of school who wanted their attempt to make a new concept vehicle. It's funny that no younger people (especially) think it's good looking. If you really want a good laugh, you should see it with the tent package installed. It's no doubt the ugliest thing now out, looks like the small import version of the Lemans (called "Lemons") on Steriods.
As for worst American cars, the Pinto and Vega both were why Americans started buying Toyotas in the 70's after they saw that that was Ford and GMs responce to "the gas crisis" in '74.
The best category is hard because GM did manage to make some decent cars through the years. American car co's were usually very good at making a V8, RWD car yet it's sad that those days have gone for the most part. The 60's and early 70's were the best overall years but those cars required more maintenance than newer cars yet the average guy could fix one too, unlike today. I hate most new cars, too much BS overall, un-necessary technology for what a car needs to be (too many "nice but not needed" gadgets everywhere and when the break, it's big $$$). ALOT of "planned obsolence" too so you'll want to replace it when the warranty expires. They want people to be continually making car payments and many now always are.
As for worst American cars, the Pinto and Vega both were why Americans started buying Toyotas in the 70's after they saw that that was Ford and GMs responce to "the gas crisis" in '74.
The best category is hard because GM did manage to make some decent cars through the years. American car co's were usually very good at making a V8, RWD car yet it's sad that those days have gone for the most part. The 60's and early 70's were the best overall years but those cars required more maintenance than newer cars yet the average guy could fix one too, unlike today. I hate most new cars, too much BS overall, un-necessary technology for what a car needs to be (too many "nice but not needed" gadgets everywhere and when the break, it's big $$$). ALOT of "planned obsolence" too so you'll want to replace it when the warranty expires. They want people to be continually making car payments and many now always are.
<img src="http://www.pcabusers.org/images/evil2.gif">
Being a UK bred hoe i find a lot of the american cars pretty damn ugly, but having said that i'm slowly being converted by my friends and my pick for best car (after having seen the movie) without doubt has to be the '67 SHELBY GT-500 MUSTANG that car has looks and lines uptodate cars can only envy !
now there are too many ugly ones that i dont even remotely know their names so ill just say that those big ass long pimp mobile types just dont do justice to the automobile trade in the US .
now there are too many ugly ones that i dont even remotely know their names so ill just say that those big ass long pimp mobile types just dont do justice to the automobile trade in the US .
CLICK FOR MY <a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=165"><img src="http://www.heatware.com/Images/logo.jpg"border=0></a>
Lemme guess Red ...that Riveria has Hydraulics, Fuzzy Dice on the Mirror and the little dog in the back window ...right?? (I really had him figured as an Eldorado kinda guy)
My Favorite ... the 70 SS Nova usta have And the 70 1/2 Z-28 RS SS I still have
The Worst??? I agree on the Pacer as the Ugliest but the new Aztech looks ALOT like a Pacer. Actually the Pacer was fairly dependable tho. I going with the 74-76 wanna be Mustangs as the worst because they were nothing but glorified Pintos trying to capitalize on some once great names like Mustang and Cobra and Shelby. At least the Pintos were Honest Junk. Worst engine ... I agree is the Caddilac 4100. What a POS. Close second to the GM 2.8L 173 V-6. You could walk up a hill faster.
My Favorite ... the 70 SS Nova usta have
And the 70 1/2 Z-28 RS SS I still have The Worst??? I agree on the Pacer as the Ugliest but the new Aztech looks ALOT like a Pacer. Actually the Pacer was fairly dependable tho. I going with the 74-76 wanna be Mustangs as the worst because they were nothing but glorified Pintos trying to capitalize on some once great names like Mustang and Cobra and Shelby. At least the Pintos were Honest Junk. Worst engine ... I agree is the Caddilac 4100. What a POS. Close second to the GM 2.8L 173 V-6. You could walk up a hill faster.
-
EvilHorace
- Life Member
- Posts: 6611
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 7:14 am
- Location: Greenfield, WI
Worst US made engine? Ahhhhh, the mid-late 70s-mid 80s 3.8 liter Buick V6s are definately up there on that list of true JUNK! About the worst POS engine I've ever seen (OK, excluding the junk 4 cyls like Pinto and Vega, etc engines).
Last summer my father-in-law (who's about 80 now) gave me his '82 Cutlass for free because it needed some work, he just bought a newer car and didn't want to mess with the '82 anymore. The car's body and interior were still mint (no rust) and with only 55K miles on it, I thought "why not, sure..A free car " .....but it's engine was toast and sounded very, very bad after it's first trip on the X-way at 70mph (which took forever, the thing was painfully SLOW, way too slow for me).
I put a high volume, high pressure oil pump on it (among other minor repairs) but it didn't help, even 20W50 with STP didn't quiet it down much (for selling purposes only) BUT I put a For Sale sticker on the back window and drove it to work one day and that very night a guy called me, came over and bought it for $2,200. I lucked out, sold it as is and the guy didn't even mention the engine noise. I never heard back from him either.
Gazza, those days of huge US cars are gone now. I think you're thinking of the 70's-early 80's types as todays US cars are small in comparison, except Cadillacs. No MGs or Triumps here anymore though (as far as very small UK cars go)
Last summer my father-in-law (who's about 80 now) gave me his '82 Cutlass for free because it needed some work, he just bought a newer car and didn't want to mess with the '82 anymore. The car's body and interior were still mint (no rust) and with only 55K miles on it, I thought "why not, sure..A free car
" .....but it's engine was toast and sounded very, very bad after it's first trip on the X-way at 70mph (which took forever, the thing was painfully SLOW, way too slow for me).I put a high volume, high pressure oil pump on it (among other minor repairs) but it didn't help, even 20W50 with STP didn't quiet it down much (for selling purposes only) BUT I put a For Sale sticker on the back window and drove it to work one day and that very night a guy called me, came over and bought it for $2,200. I lucked out, sold it as is and the guy didn't even mention the engine noise. I never heard back from him either.
Gazza, those days of huge US cars are gone now. I think you're thinking of the 70's-early 80's types as todays US cars are small in comparison, except Cadillacs. No MGs or Triumps here anymore though (as far as very small UK cars go)
<img src="http://www.pcabusers.org/images/evil2.gif">
Yeah, those early 3.8's were junk and so were those small V8's in the Cutlass, something like 256ci?
Wolfman, I agree the early carbureted 2.8L was crapola as well. Was even worse when thay popped them in trucks (S-10 and early XJ Jeeps). Usually needed rebuilds after 80-100k miles. It improved *alot* when it went multi-port fuel injection (ala Z24 Cavalier). Later evolved to the 3.1L and the 3.4L (found in the early 4th gen F-body).
Wolfman, I agree the early carbureted 2.8L was crapola as well. Was even worse when thay popped them in trucks (S-10 and early XJ Jeeps). Usually needed rebuilds after 80-100k miles. It improved *alot* when it went multi-port fuel injection (ala Z24 Cavalier). Later evolved to the 3.1L and the 3.4L (found in the early 4th gen F-body).
-
Koo Koo Mouse
- Posts: 1712
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:09 pm
- Location: Osseo MN
My personal expiriences with these cars:
<b>71 Chevy impala (400cid)</b>- Best car I've ever had.
It took a LOT of abuse and held up. I could burn tires for half a block! Only major was the tranny. Locked in to third and made starting off a stop very slow. Expensive fix. I desereved that one.
<b>70 somthing coguar</b> Got it cheap in very poor shape. Got rid of cuz the front end was so bad the front tires would squeel going straight down a road on smooth tar. The back tires never made a peep even when trying to. Whats wrong will this picture?
<b>76 Pacer (Orange!)</b> Another cheapo. Ugly car and a color to match.. Major electrical problems in the charging system that baffled even the machanics. Left me stranded with a dead battery numerous times. Should have installed a towing bar on that car.. On the FRONT of it..
<b>73 Olds cutlass (350cid)</b> Bought for $225. A bit on the Gutless side for a motor that size IMO. Went though TWO trannys on that one. I really loved driving two miles in reverse on night to get it home. Sitting at stoplights is the worst part looking at the driver behing you face to face and trying to figure out what all his gestures mean. Guess he didn't like my headlights blinding him. Found that car could burn rubber.. in reverse. heh.
<b>Eary 70's Nova</b> The ulitmate gutless wonder. Two speed trany and a straight six. Never a problem with it. Just don't try to pull a U-haul on the freeway with them. More unpleasent gestures from folks wanting to go over 45 mph..
<b>80 Pinto</b> A four banger wagon. Hauled 1200 pounds of rock in that thing once. Once.. Developed some abnormalities after that and got rid of it. Cheap!
<b>79 Fairmont</b> Very reliable if it wasn't raining or foggy. Those were the only demands of the ignition system. Its raining? Sorry.. your going nowere today.
<b>81 Tbird (302)</b> No compliants. Had it for four years and only put in a fuel pump. Thats it! With a four speed tranny I could burn tires anytime everytime! Sold that car in good working order. Why? I still don't know..
<b>79 Caprice (350)</b> The perfect winter beater. Brought it back from the dead and it gave me 3.5 years of solid intermitant service.. I actualy DROVE that car the to scrap yard.. That was a first. Timing chain got so sloppy the distrubtor had the be ajusted to start it and again to pull itself. I began to tire or this chore very quickly. Then also there was that nasty sound of the timing chain hitting the cover.
<b>87 Park avenue</b> Still driving this one. Got it for free from my uncle. Been a good car for having 200,000 mi on it and I'd have to say almost half of the unecessay gadget still work! Can't complain. It has let me down though.. Some mass flow thingy went out on it. All I could do was open the hood a stare at the motor. After a long stare down and some wire giggling I called someone that had a clue. My local Shop. (gimme back my carberated V8!!)
<b>91 calias</b> This car was inherited thru marriage and weve never gotten along.. (Me and the car that is) Already been tru one tranny. ($860 to replace) Im not impressed with this car as it only has 86,000 mi on it.. Whats next on this one. Guess only time will tell.
All in all I think cars are a gamble.. Even when I quit abusing cars they still break.. Problem with newer cars is I can't fix em, slide around corners in the snow or do a good burnout. Damn things just arn't any fun any more and more expensive to fix..
<b>71 Chevy impala (400cid)</b>- Best car I've ever had.
It took a LOT of abuse and held up. I could burn tires for half a block! Only major was the tranny. Locked in to third and made starting off a stop very slow. Expensive fix. I desereved that one.
<b>70 somthing coguar</b> Got it cheap in very poor shape. Got rid of cuz the front end was so bad the front tires would squeel going straight down a road on smooth tar. The back tires never made a peep even when trying to. Whats wrong will this picture?
<b>76 Pacer (Orange!)</b> Another cheapo. Ugly car and a color to match.. Major electrical problems in the charging system that baffled even the machanics. Left me stranded with a dead battery numerous times. Should have installed a towing bar on that car.. On the FRONT of it..
<b>73 Olds cutlass (350cid)</b> Bought for $225. A bit on the Gutless side for a motor that size IMO. Went though TWO trannys on that one. I really loved driving two miles in reverse on night to get it home. Sitting at stoplights is the worst part looking at the driver behing you face to face and trying to figure out what all his gestures mean. Guess he didn't like my headlights blinding him. Found that car could burn rubber.. in reverse. heh.
<b>Eary 70's Nova</b> The ulitmate gutless wonder. Two speed trany and a straight six. Never a problem with it. Just don't try to pull a U-haul on the freeway with them. More unpleasent gestures from folks wanting to go over 45 mph..
<b>80 Pinto</b> A four banger wagon. Hauled 1200 pounds of rock in that thing once. Once..
Developed some abnormalities after that and got rid of it. Cheap!<b>79 Fairmont</b> Very reliable if it wasn't raining or foggy. Those were the only demands of the ignition system. Its raining? Sorry.. your going nowere today.
<b>81 Tbird (302)</b> No compliants. Had it for four years and only put in a fuel pump. Thats it! With a four speed tranny I could burn tires anytime everytime! Sold that car in good working order. Why? I still don't know..
<b>79 Caprice (350)</b> The perfect winter beater. Brought it back from the dead and it gave me 3.5 years of solid intermitant service.. I actualy DROVE that car the to scrap yard.. That was a first. Timing chain got so sloppy the distrubtor had the be ajusted to start it and again to pull itself. I began to tire or this chore very quickly. Then also there was that nasty sound of the timing chain hitting the cover.
<b>87 Park avenue</b> Still driving this one. Got it for free from my uncle. Been a good car for having 200,000 mi on it and I'd have to say almost half of the unecessay gadget still work! Can't complain. It has let me down though.. Some mass flow thingy went out on it. All I could do was open the hood a stare at the motor. After a long stare down and some wire giggling I called someone that had a clue. My local Shop. (gimme back my carberated V8!!)
<b>91 calias</b> This car was inherited thru marriage and weve never gotten along.. (Me and the car that is) Already been tru one tranny. ($860 to replace) Im not impressed with this car as it only has 86,000 mi on it.. Whats next on this one. Guess only time will tell.
All in all I think cars are a gamble.. Even when I quit abusing cars they still break.. Problem with newer cars is I can't fix em, slide around corners in the snow or do a good burnout. Damn things just arn't any fun any more and more expensive to fix..
<b>Best</b> - 2000-2001 Corvette Z06. It was recently matched up against the top 10 fastest cars in the world (motor trend) and i think it placed 3rd? It runs about 48,000$. A friend at work just bought a red w/ black interior one. My god this is the baddest ass stock production car i've ever driven. 6 speed, 385hp, a kick ass rear end. In Motor trend it got a 1.04 grip. I've never seen a car get a perfect 1.0 grip. It handles like it's on rails. Handles better than a 911 w/ all wheel drive! When you step on it, it REALLY throws you back in the seat. 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.
For the price (it was being compaired to 100,000-250,000 cars), you cannot beat the quality. It also has a luxury car type interior. The seats remember three settings and are heated. Carbon-fiber in the instrument gauge that has a checked flag look very faintly. Does 175mph top speed.
Only got to drive it once, but i was in heaven.
For the price (it was being compaired to 100,000-250,000 cars), you cannot beat the quality. It also has a luxury car type interior. The seats remember three settings and are heated. Carbon-fiber in the instrument gauge that has a checked flag look very faintly. Does 175mph top speed.
Only got to drive it once, but i was in heaven.